SC4Evermore Forums

Three Rivers Region is a 1,600 sq mile/4,096 sq kilometer landscape of the mind- join us as we develop and detail its 256 quads.     
     
The Table of Contents is now located in its permanent home here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=193.0).  Enjoy your visit to 3RR!


David

It is an honor to be the first to welcome 3RR!!!

That is a really really nice shot Dedgren!
Lots of detailing work.
May I ask what water mod you are using?

Phil

I'll be anxiously awaiting the return of 3RR!

---Gaston

Oh, dear.  Gaston's discovered the scrolling text...

re: Gaston's scrolling: what's wrong with a new toy?
re: TRR: I'll be waiting to see what you've been working to show us and good to hear of the positive verdict for you. Again, keep me in mind for the development project (and away from CBD districts... not enough experience to make anything decent yet) rural/costal areas would be nice. Take it easy, and see you around.

well, well
welcome to sc4Devotion David, really nice shot up there :D

Welcome to sc4devotion, david (dedgren)! It's nice to see 3RR here, too.

Great shot!

 &drumm1

*watches this space in anticipation

&smrt

Hi David, welcome and nice to see you starting 3RR here  :thumbsup:

If you need any technical help with your project, just let me know  ;)


Oh, and the preview looks very promising  ;D

welcome my friend

Hey David,
Looks like the link's working, all right then count on me to follow your progress here!

Happy Holidays my friend!  :wings:

John

David,

Glad to see thie here.  I love the map you made and am using it myself.  You're aq true inspiration.

Good,  I've found you.  I felt like the little boy who went off to school one morning and came home and found that everyone had moved.   :'(  

Bring it on, I'm reeeeady!

Keith

David,
Great to see 3RR up and running here!  I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with this impressive region.  Judging from what you have already done at ST, we are all in for quite a treat!

Oh goody. This is going to be great having 3RR here.

Kettle is on. Black or white?

A warm welcome to SC4D

:satisfied:

You rock David! Thanks for coming here too. &dance

I Never really followed 3RR at ST, i look in once in while and found the tutorials very useful but never really followed every post.  However Now it is here at SC4D it will make things easier for me. ST always took a long time to load, and due to the large amounts of comments you always got, it often took a while before i actually found the pictures. Here though, with a fresh topic, and lesspages for me to wade through i will be able to follow all the developments.

Looking forward to more :party:

(&dance <just had to include that)

Look at this!! If I could post one image and get a page of responses..... that is truly amazing. I'm with some of the other folk here in that I never could follow 3RR at ST due to various issues (not only that, but I only started checking CJ's out after 3RR was on like page 25 or 30 (patient as I am, I wasn't going to read through that much).

It has a pretty rabid following, seeing the amount of replies you've already generated. Can't wait to check it out here, now. Great!!

Plus, you get an elephant:  &dance

Wow!  A bunch of great comments already, and I haven't even gotten really started.

That's actually a project for over the weekend (Christmas?  Wuzzat?).  Actually, we'll be celebrating the holiday in Texas mid-next week after we travel down there to spend time with our oldest adopted son, who's in the hospital there.  So it's a regular lawyer weekend...

QuoteQ:  What's the great thing about being a lawyer on Friday night?

A:  Only two more work days 'til Monday.

Here's a bit more 3RR eye candy to help tide you over.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg489.imageshack.us%2Fimg489%2F2047%2F06122101oq6.jpg&hash=d2478813f768f2d7e18f20aa96598fcba5b00864)

I'm still working on the ploppable to "game" water transitions- the rapids do a pretty good job, though.

Oh, and I can't resist...we're at 16 inches/~42 cm on the ground and still falling.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg489.imageshack.us%2Fimg489%2F1430%2Fsnowstorm03qn7.jpg&hash=76bb4d238911af4ffaf875857738f722b6179331)

Eat your heart out, Silvio (Rayden) my friend.  No, really- may everyone (everyone who wants one, anyway) have a white Christmas.

Later.

Yeah, ditto what mjig_dudy said.  I'm looking forward to seeing 3RR here so maybe I'll actually have time to go through it. 

Well David,
     Back here in the mid-west...    no snow!!!!! ;D     Sorry I know everyone wants a white christmas, but I HATE  :angrymore: driving in that stuff.   And I have to work right up till christmas eve.    And my GF is outta town visiting her Mom in Fla. so being snowed in would be the pits.     BTW is that a toyota land cruiser (old model) in the pic on ST  :o?     I love those.   It was always my favorite vehicle.   


---Gaston

Great picture! &apls Nice river! &apls

I look forward to being able to follow this CJ :D I have tried to read through it @ ST but i havent had the time ;)

Hello David,

That river looks great!  Is it just me, or have you decided to use a different terrain mod?  Doesn't look like it's quite as green as the Columbus mod.  Is this the new Italia mod?

Hope you are enjoying the snow!  We have had a little here in Denver as well.

I continue to fiddle around with topo mapping of the quads.

Here's a mountainous quad from the northeast quadrant of the region.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg187.imageshack.us%2Fimg187%2F7320%2Ftest01rctu4.jpg&hash=a9fba82836b91e50ed224a52acb9c275c700cf74)

Here's what it looks like from directly overhead.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg85.imageshack.us%2Fimg85%2F9695%2Ftestresultgameuu4.png&hash=c62740b09ad7c4c3e4921df0a873659a4aec4660)

And here's a topographic map (contour lines only) of the same thing.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg348.imageshack.us%2Fimg348%2F24%2Ftest01result800to400ei5.png&hash=c8b6118d4fc60668332d16ea87c51b52c2a8a1ec)

This isn't perfected yet by any means.  But it's coming along.

Later.

dedgren, this is just amazing.  The eye-candy screenshots are a work of art.

I'm going to have to keep a close eye on 3RR.  :thumbsup:

Great new work, dedgren!

QuoteWow!  A bunch of great comments already, and I haven't even gotten really started.

That's actually a project for over the weekend (Christmas?  Wuzzat?).  Actually, we'll be celebrating the holiday in Texas mid-next week after we travel down there to spend time with our oldest adopted son, who's in the hospital there.  So it's a regular lawyer weekend...

Well so much for your White Christmas :P  (Lessee... snow/family... snow/family...FAMILY!!!

Thanks for the link fr ST!

Have a Merry Christmas or time off or.. ;D

Hi, David,

I hate moving!   ::)   I have had a rule through out my life--never move for a man unless you are absolutely certain he is trustworthy.

Plops down on top of moving box.

Now where did I put my writing supplies?  Oh, yes, here they are, I never pack them too deep!

Looks around.

Hey, nice digs, David and Jeronij.  I love what you've done with the place!

Nice topos, and ploppable to game water transition.  The rapids work very well for that purpose.  I am so jealous of your snow.  A huge storm missed us by about 100 miles--such is Christmas in the Banana Belt.  It is less complicated, I suppose.  Sorry about the trouble at ST; it is a great site, tho.  Maybe they will find a few Simoleans in their stocking to help.

Moves hurriedly out of the way as the dancing pink eleplant goes by.

Watch the china!  Well, back to the unpacking, see you!

--Liv

The topographic map looks great. Are you going to be doing that for all 256 quads? Seems like a rather daunting task...but then again, if anyone is up to such as task, it would be you. I'll still be around here waiting for more. Happy Holidays!

Quote from: dedgren on December 21, 2006, 03:00:52 PMNo, really- may everyone (everyone who wants one, anyway) have a white Christmas.

I most certainly won't. Just a few more hours 'till my plane takes off for sunny Islas Canarias now. Just me, my wife, and 20.000 drunk german tourists.  ;D

Great to see work has started on your huge region

This is looking magnificent Dedgren :thumbsup: Looking forward to more ;)

n.b.  Just ignore this for now- I'm working on the back story for 3RR, and will be doing it as a work in progress here over the next few days.  Happy Christmas Eve!  Maybe a 3RR present under the 'puterized tree tomorrow.  DE

Three Rivers Region ("3RR") is a 1,600 square mile/4,096 square kilometer area of land located on the North American continent at about 49 degrees north latitude and 95 degrees west longitude.  It lies on the northwest shore of the highest of the great lakes of the region (820 feet/250 meters above sea level), which drains the three large rivers of the region out through Lake Superior and on to the Atlantic Ocean.  The area is a square 40 miles/64 kilometers on a side and is self-governing under the Treaty of 1839.  3RR enjoys close relations with both Canada and the United States, but strictly observes its national motto:


which loosely translates as, "You mind your business and we'll mind ours."

The administrative center of 3RR is the city of Pineshore, which has a total population of about 1,200,000 inhabitants.  Pineshore is situated at the mouths of the Grand and Wind Rivers.  Suburban areas surrounding the city have a combined population of about another 500,000 people.  Small cities, towns and villages spread across the rest of the region bring the area's total population to about two million.

The area was first explored by French and English trappers and traders in the early 1800s.  The abundance of fur bearing animals in the area such as beaver and fox led to the establishment of a trading post on High Island by 1820.  There were aboriginals, mostly Chippewa and Assiniboine, that frequented the area that ultimately became 3RR, but no permanent aboriginal settlements are known to have existed.

By the 1830s, farmers had begun to move into the area attracted by its fertile prairies, ease of shipping, and, due to the configuration of the mountains to the north, west and south, relatively mild winters and long growing season for being so far north.  The week-long "War of Hickam's Knee," which arose over the rumor that the U.S. and Canadian governments were colluding in imposing a tax on local smörgåsbord get-togethers resulted in independence under the aforementioned Treaty of 1839 when each of those nations, on the mistaken notion that 3RR was on the other side of the national border, ceded all claims to the region without a shot being fired.  By the time this error was recognized, 3RR's residents had taken the ball and run with it, establishing a regional government that stands today as a model of efficiency and just administration unique in the world.

Railroads quickly connected the region to the growing cities of the U.S. midwest and Canadian plains.  The advent of the automobile increased these links, and truck and rail transport now surpass, but not by much, shipments of goods and commodities through 3RR's port city of Nelson.  Three Rivers Region International Airport has become a major hub for several airlines, and its airfreight capacity now rivals cities like Memphis.

The area has come to be a significant producer of crops such as corn, wheat, sorghum, milo and soybeans.  Regional development plans have been put into place to strictly limit the conversion of farmland to non-agricultural uses- this and a favorable taxation scheme insures that the rural character of the region outside of Pineshore and its suburbs remains strong and vibrant.  A strong high-tech industrial sector based on agricultural feedstocks for products such as plastics and alternative fuels has developed and presents new opportunities to grow 3RR's economy in the first decades of the 21st century.

Not to be overlooked is 3RR's industrial potential generally.  The discovery of the world's largest deposits of upsidasium shortly after the Second World War left the region, until the crash in demand for the mineral in the late 1960s, a major extractive resource producer.  Mining is still active in 3RR producing coal, iron ore and a range of other minerals, and substantial industrial capacity remains to process the production from these operations.  The region also has a strong manufacturing sector, producing everything from heavy equipment all the way to the most advanced integrated circuits and other electronics.

Three Rivers Region has a "continental" climate, with snowy winters and warm, sunny summers with moderate precipitation.  The following bar chart shows the year's average daily temperatures.


The growing season in 3RR is 120-130 days long.  The region is in USDA Growing Zone 4a.

looking great!

Merry Christmas to you, too!

Great intro

Nice attention to detail and great national Motto!

Since I'm in the mood for miscellaneous posts today, here's one of the maps I'm working on that will become a part of the last one.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg82.imageshack.us%2Fimg82%2F9760%2F3rr162waternames800ve9.png&hash=4fe5633ec8a2cbae53b9f5e6f6e4bb04dbaa41e7)

That's a little hard on the eyes, so here's a full size (2048px by 2048px, about 370kb) version [linkie] (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8229/3rr162waternames2048fx2.png).

Enjoy.

Later.

Hi David D:

I'm glad to see you hear.  I've been back to STEX many times to look at your tutorials.  I hate to see you remove them.  Will you bring them here?  I sure hope so.

I still would like to know how you handle your dependencies using you method of plugin organization.  I've decided to adopt it and try it out.  Seems like a lot better method than what I was using.  Let me know you you tie the two together since the BAT file is in 100 and the prop/texture files are in 001. 

I wish you and you family a very Merry Christmas.

Take a break and have a happy holiday.

Keith

The background story and the new map are remarkable! Your mapmaking skills never cease to amaze me. Hopefully I'll get a chance to check back here during the day tomorrow for more, but if not, have a Merry Christmas!!!

Very cool maps Dedgren, and a very nice background story. The country's motto is my favorite  :thumbsup:

Great map and names!

Haven't gotten as far as I wanted, so the collaboration announcement is off for the next little bit.  I want to have it right when I do it- you know how that is.

There's a few pics, though, in the 3RR Christmas stocking.  As you know, the forestation of 3RR- a massive job, is continuing on.  I probably have about 3/4 of the quads at least started, and many are far along.

For those of you familiar with the "Snow" cheat, you know that if you run it, you get seasonal snow at lower elevations.  What many don't know is that the cheat is automatically run when you play the game on December 25th.  So, here's a few shots of the Christmas day snowfall in Three Rivers Region.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F5884%2F06122505ak3.jpg&hash=ce3f87e51bbbd649c3acf8864ae27962887dadd1)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F4859%2F06122504yk7.jpg&hash=93d75ea69def7eb04ccbe98a2b6a6525c1bc7bf4)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F8135%2F06122503pm5.jpg&hash=759587e1d87f14839c9a3b8b09650eb932a8cb15)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F4655%2F06122502wb1.jpg&hash=567779891239d4e92a84cb022765adf936308378)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg214.imageshack.us%2Fimg214%2F1392%2F06122501kj6.jpg&hash=39c9886e50b78fefc6977b7b7906de6967c2c82f)

I can still see the "jaggies" that you get at the base of the snowpack in various places.  The trees, however, do a pretty good job of hiding them or blending them in.

Anyway, Merry Christmas from the Great White North.  Lots more to come at 3RR over the next few days.


David

Hi David:

You might want to have less trees at the very tops of the mountains.  Maybe even no trees at the very tops. 

Would it be more realistic considering heavy snow at the top of the mountains would bury a lot of the trees?  The trees look the same all the way up the snow to the top.  Looks like someone shook the pepper shaker over them. 

Just a suggestion from an old eye.   &Thk/(

Keith

Yo, back again.

Hi, Keith (keithsed)  You noted in your last comment

QuoteYou might want to have less trees at the very tops of the mountains.  Maybe even no trees at the very tops.

There will be a 3RR treeline at some elevation.  I need to get the whole region forested to figure out what looks best.  Note the the snow pics I showed today were at much lower elevations than any snow mod would put it.  That's the game "cheat" snow in the dead of winter- as far down as it gets.

You also said

QuoteWould it be more realistic considering heavy snow at the top of the mountains would bury a lot of the trees?  The trees look the same all the way up the snow to the top.  Looks like someone shook the pepper shaker over them.

A couple of points there.  I live in snow country, and am surrounded by mountains.  Our treeline is pretty low up here- a couple of 1,000 feet, because of how far north we are.  That said, it is sort of funny how, from a distance, no matter where on the mountains you look, the trees seem to grow above the snow up until you get to the treeline.  It's too dark outside now, so I'll have to take some RL pics over the next little bit and explore this.

Here's a game pic, though, that I think looks pretty good (for saltshaker snow, heh!)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg228.imageshack.us%2Fimg228%2F6431%2F06122506av4.jpg&hash=ce8a63f68d91bfc5db1e0cb1318ce6a3b246d088)

All that said, it's certainly not a function of the game engine to model snow depth.  I will experiment with using smaller trees (which would be the case in RL in any event) at higher elevations to see what that looks like.

Anyway, great comment.  Your "old eye" seems to be in pretty good shape.  I owe you some answers to a few other questions you've raised- I'll be taking the 'puter with me to Texas tomorrow night for a week of 3RR From the Road- count on me getting to them.

I'm still playing Johnny Appleseed [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed)...

Here's the latest Region Census shot.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg407.imageshack.us%2Fimg407%2F9504%2F0612251024ao2.jpg&hash=b32a4ffe099c6a93343fe582f6615dd4341237ee)

A full-size pic is here [linkie] (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3250/061225fullaj8.jpg).  It's about 3000 by 1500 pixels and weighs in at about 313kb.  Note that I've taken out the "snow mod" as I work on these recent quads. which are mainly in the northwest quadrant.  This creates a contrast between the mountains at the top left and top right of the region you might find interesting.

Here's a few close-ups.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg228.imageshack.us%2Fimg228%2F6955%2F06122501ln8.jpg&hash=5b817646aa35b4f738f9422edfaad364a922f63b)

What I'm placing now are the lodgepole pines at the lowest elevations of hills.  The pines I use along lakeshores and riverbanks (shore pine and subalpine fir) have yet to go in.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg413.imageshack.us%2Fimg413%2F7817%2F06122502ir9.jpg&hash=47f381cf5b89c91be0f5bd7daeec79a37a900c22)

I love this valley...

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg411.imageshack.us%2Fimg411%2F2789%2F06122503xj8.jpg&hash=4a2898ad934580aa9908f18d7cd8b8f315113d59)

These lakeside areas will be fun to develop, as well.

Christmas is winding down- I'm working on dinner by making quick trips to the kitchen between keystrokes.  Hope everyone had a great day!

Later.

Excellent progress so far. The trees are filling in nicely. One question I have though, hopefully this won't make you work too hard (with christmas being over and you already being on the road), but as I recall, any trading of regions results in a loss of trees. If we are going to take a few quads for development, would we be doing the actual development (and if so how should/would we replicate the trees) and if not, what would be the best way to present development plans to work well for you? Hope your Christmas was enjoyable and (relatively) relaxing.

That's pretty clever how the snow automatically comes up on Christmas Day! Anyway, the new pictures look great. Have a good time in Texas and I'll be back to see more of your progress.

This is amazing :o Im looking forward to more :o

Looks very great, dedgren!

Quote from: dedgren on December 21, 2006, 03:00:52 PM...Oh, and I can't resist...we're at 16 inches/~42 cm on the ground and still falling.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg489.imageshack.us%2Fimg489%2F1430%2Fsnowstorm03qn7.jpg&hash=76bb4d238911af4ffaf875857738f722b6179331)

Eat your heart out, Silvio (Rayden) my friend.  No, really- may everyone (everyone who wants one, anyway) have a white Christmas.

Later.

:angrymore: I really hate you David :angrymore: $%Grinno$%, specially because I'm almost sure I will not get that snow quality (thick) this time at Andorra (from 12th till 21st Jan 07). No off-piste for this time  :'( :bomb:
Merry Xmas and A Happy New Year my dear friend. :)

This is looking great, David.  One question, when you sculpted the smaller rivers/streams, did you use the valley tool in SC4TF or did you set a predetermined depth for the riverbed and then sculpt the banks independantly or have you done something else that I have not thought of?  I'm pretty happy with the way my rivers look, but would like to know what you did.

Hope you enjoy the weather down south after all that snow!

Have a great trip and a happy new year!

These are great maps and great mountain areas David.

Nice work.  It will be nice to get in on these diaries from the start.  The reasons have been stated by others, I'm sure you know them.  As big as 3RR is I guess I'll be looking in for some time to come.

Thanks for the site guys!

Nice to see you here David!

3RR is looking great.
Nik-Nik

Lovely and relaxing images here david, your terraforming skills are excellent! Thanks for sharing:thumbsup:

awesome work you have done my friend

Wow  thought I lost my favorite CJ.

Here once more lurking in the background  to learn from the master.. &apls

No, my dear friend...I, like you, am but a humble grasshopper...

...but we are together in the presence of The True Master, here at SC4D.

Glad to see you around- new stuff up tomorrow as I post from the road in Odessa, Texas.

Later.

Well, here I am bumping my own thread...

...

...[crickets chirping]...

...

...okay, so shoot me.

Anyway, I got sidetracked today into more 3RR topo.

I wound up figuring a few things out (converting black to brown lines, believe it or not, was the hardest) as I did the entire eastern section of the Northern Range.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg145.imageshack.us%2Fimg145%2F9450%2Fquadsnrangeeastint1024va6.png&hash=d06da102004e0f027b745c68386d49e5fba93332)

That's reduced in 16m colors from this [linkie] four color original (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8581/quadsnrangeeastintfulllw9.png), which is about half again as big.

Am I driving folks nuts with this stuff?  I think it's incredible.  I plan to do 3RRGS topos someday in detail that rival the USGS real thing [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographic_map).

More tomorrow, as I try to get collaboration back on track.

Later.

That'd be difficult to do, obviously, David. :P Nice eye-candy pics you've posted, too.

At least I've found 3RR here at SC4D. :P

It's wet here, in the middle of summer, and well, I'm liking it.

I had a look at the full size region shot you posted, and I'm amazed that you have the time to work with something so big.  The topographic maps are cool... I'd like to see more of those (if you have more to post).

The region is looking really good, and now that you've started to plant trees, it's looking even better!  :thumbsup:

You're not driving me nuts with this stuff, I think it's fantastic, too! For me, it's your attention to detail that makes not only your maps, but all your work so great for me. Hope all is well in Texas and I'll looking for to more!

Very great topographic map! Well done work!

Hey Dedgren,

Things are still looking good!!  The forrestation of 3RR is seemingly coming along well and your topographical projects are definitely fascinating.  You are taking things way beyond what I ever could have dreamed was possible.  Keep it up!!

Very kool stuff, David.     I love topo maps.   I guess it is because I can visualize what a place looks like when I look at one.    Thanks for sharing it.

Have a Happy New Year

---Gaston

The topo maps are interesting, and very detailed. Knowing you, it doesn't seem like it'll take too long for you to surpass the USGS (don't tell them I said that) and maybe even offer a new adaptation of it. Who knows, maybe you could combine it with region census and automate the entire process (but then I have no idea regarding programing like that... probably tough if nothing else). At any rate, hope Christmas went well, and Happy New Year.

Very nice topo maps David!!! Have a happy new year

Thanks, SC4D for the great support these past few weeks.  Big things to come in just a bit.

Check out, if you would, my plea for some lot tweaking help over at this thread [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=141.msg4459#msg4459).  See you around next year!


David

David,
   I have no clue as to how to fix that problem.     Heck I can't even get my roads to look like dirt.   lol     I hope someone posts the answer here so I can see it.      BTW,    Ooooooh, sweet tree lots.  Those are really kool.

---Gaston

Happy New Year, sir!

Hey Dedgren, Your region is coming along very well!! Love the way it looks with the trees and all very beautiful!!! Can't wait to see more awesome work!!

Happy New Year!!

your work is awesome
happy new year my friend i hope its a lucky one for you

Happy new year 2007 to you, too!

Happy New Year David, I can see you got rid of the snow and went to some warmer region. Today, I have at where I live, the warmest temperature seen for years on the 1st of January, 21º C, and we are talking about the northern hemisphere. ;)

Out with the old...

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg296.imageshack.us%2Fimg296%2F346%2F07010101xg1.jpg&hash=a7318fd7e437558b2872ad0a4dfd72ed9e609b2e)

In with the new!

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg172.imageshack.us%2Fimg172%2F6040%2F07010102ar3.jpg&hash=e1e67638c3db028ea8abf6b6367b72953824a0cb)

Not to be ungrateful...

...because I'm very, very grateful- thank you, oh ye Gods of NAM!

...but this has been a long time coming.

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n.b.:  Still hoping someone might post the answer over at my plea for some lot tweaking help over at this thread [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=141.msg4459#msg4459).

Later.

Now wait just a darn sec.... I have the new NAM (January 07), where the heck is that rail curve? 

Oh man, when I find that....  &idea  ;D

Edit  Nevermind, found it.  ;D


Oh, BTW, I posted a reply to your lot and street troubles.   I hope it helps a little.

 #?¿?¿?$   New NAM????????    What new NAM?   WHere new NAM???       I can't find a new NAM any where.   David you gotta hook me up my friend.

There is new NAM about to be released officially. But some people already have it. I already have one version, the German one, but I haven't tried it yet. Still waiting for the official release and some instructions in English.

The detail in the track seems a little rough on the new curve, but the curve is still a big improvement.
Thanks for the preview!

Okay, so let's have a little change of seasons...

...just a tease, anyway.

Spring
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg463.imageshack.us%2Fimg463%2F2782%2F07010201zx6.jpg&hash=5cc8a18630453bb84a4e4386718260758b782a1a)

Summer
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg49.imageshack.us%2Fimg49%2F6150%2F07010202si8.jpg&hash=9099927aa9a27d926733e820137e3308bbab9109)

Fall
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F664%2F07010203sm9.jpg&hash=f6482e3c6fdfbef50e6d12171cfc865baca79c93)

Winter
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And, again.  Jeez, I love stands of aspen.

Spring
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg243.imageshack.us%2Fimg243%2F4987%2F07010205wy1.jpg&hash=fed23c75fff3635b9599b3ba09cac8a5b68e042c)

Summer
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Fall
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Winter
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256 quads of this?  Hey, one of my homebrew lots is 24x24.

I'm still perfecting tree mix and density- just wanted to let you in on what's ahead.

Flying back to Alaska from Texas tomorrow.  Probably won't post again until Thursday...

...my arms will be too tired!

Heh.  Later.

That is realy cool.  :thumbsup:

Nice season-changes! (Why is there no snow in the winter-season?)

Hey, I'm finally here and all I can say is WOW!!  I really like those trees and your region is looking really good, David.
I'll be following this cj, you know that I liked the old 3RR, and here at SC4 Devotion, I'll visit it more.

Great work

Cristian

I go away for a week or so, and there is already 5 pages on this one!! The main reason I never kept up to the ST one was because it was so long....

I am now caught up. Don't leave me behind!

Very nice, I love the seasonal trees. But theres seems like theres just too much yellow during the fall. Maybe if you added some more red or orange?

The seasonal changes look great, and I ope you've solved you sidewalk conundrum. However, I do agree with the point made by your_address_here about all the yellow in the autumn. Is there a way to add different colors or is that the standard autumn setting?

David,
   Hope your trip went well.   That is one long flight I'll bet.
   3RR is looking great.    You have inspired me to try some new trees I have never used before.   And word on the "strasse" is that the English version of the new NAM will be available soon.   Right now it is just the German version that I can find.
:party:
Some folks just posted:

QuoteVery nice, I love the seasonal trees. But theres seems like theres just too much yellow during the fall. Maybe if you added some more red or orange?   AND  The seasonal changes look great, and I ope you've solved you sidewalk conundrum. However, I do agree with the point made by your_address_here about all the yellow in the autumn. Is there a way to add different colors or is that the standard autumn setting?

Thundercrack and Your_Address_Here,

    I think that is the look David is looking for.   He rarely does anything without a very specific purpose,   LOL    And he is using Aspens, which are notoriuosly golden yellow in the fall.   Just a guess on my part.    This is just my humble opinion, afterall.

---Gaston 

Hi, everyone-

Back in Alaska- it's 1:00 a.m. local time (GMT-9) and snowing to beat the band.  I have responses on my laptops to some of the recent questions and will post those and answer new ones as well during the day tomorrow.

Off to bed.


David

Welcome back home David ;)

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Haha Davd. i am also back online again.

Good morning, it's now 4.43 in Alaska, so you're not up yet (geez 10 hours difference with the Netherlands)

Great continuation of 3RR. I love the change of seasons pics.

New NAM stuff looks promessing and I am dying to get my hands on that new stuff. The RR track is great and much more realistic. Reminds me of playing with my Marklin (http://www.marklin.com/) train set.

Great stuff.

Nik-Nik

Quote from: Gaston on January 02, 2007, 07:02:16 PM
And he is using Aspens, which are notoriuosly golden yellow in the fall.   Just a guess on my part.    This is just my humble opinion, afterall.

---Gaston 

Ah, I see. I guess I'm just used to seeing more red, what with all our maples here in Canada. Especially in southern Ontario, which is an explosion of red, yellow and orange.

personally i am now 100% sold on the new God Mode Tree Controllers from Cycledogg (italia, desert, olympic) are all very beautiful and detailed, also the plant a variety but on the appropriate slopes so that you can go crazy planting trees from tile to tile but the mix will look normall in region view, this really helps to eliminate the "tree grid" that can appear when randomly planting trees from tile to tile.

it will be interesting to see what you do with such a large region.

Welcome back David,
     Wow it is almost 6:30 am there in Alaska if my calculations are right.   And you aren't up and posting messages yet.   LOL    Hope you had a great visit down in Texas.    The weather had to be a heck of a lot different down there than in Alaska.

     your_adress_here posted today:

QuoteAh, I see. I guess I'm just used to seeing more red, what with all our maples here in Canada. Especially in southern Ontario, which is an explosion of red, yellow and orange.

Yep, I know what you mean.   As a young kid we spent alot of time in northern New England and the falls there where really spectacular as well.   Lots of yellows, reds and oranges.   We even spent a bit of time there in Canada just north of Maine.  (I have some distant relatives there.  My paternal grand-father was French Canadian, eh.)   But that was a long time ago.


---Gaston

wow awsome cj david i love the region shots i wish you good luck in the 3RR.

Before I do the short post I planned, let me give you a sense of what we've returned to from the windswept plains of west Texas.

We drove the Explorer home from the airport last night.  The berm at the end of the driveway left by the plow should have warned me.

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'Cruiser's buried for the duration, I guess.

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I'll have to deal with the car, though.

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Murphy survived the storm.

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Yard won't need to be mowed for a while...

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F1866%2F07010305mn9.jpg&hash=72ba94399403540f0ea0d6128c10f11f4021e4dc)

As noted, they have plowed our road.

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Other than that, though, things are just still and calm.

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More snow's on the way, I'd say.

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A few from the porch...

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Waiting for me is my trusty friend...

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...which I'll use to dig out the snow-blower later.
_______________________

Okay, okay...here's some 3RR content.

I spent a while this morning tweaking my "aspen" lots.  I was not satisfied with uniformity of the orange trees in the larger lots and wanted to break up some of the squarish lot outlines Alek (Aleking) noted.

Anyway, here's where the "dedgren" files under the "999" (load last) subfolder of "plugins" currently stands.

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A shot of some of those files as they come up in the Lot Editor.

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Here's what one of the 8x8 aspen lots look like in LE.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg407.imageshack.us%2Fimg407%2F3523%2F07010303ey5.jpg&hash=1ac74b53a9a4278e1516d156b8691817018f58be)

Here's 24x24 (I had no idea...) mixed forest.

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A final LE shot- here's an 8x1 row of roadside cottonwoods.

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It only takes a few minutes to set these up once you've created some.  I'm by no means finished- I plan to put in some "ground clutter" (stumps, maybe some spring and summer shrubs, a few (very few, as they get overused easily) rocks and boulders in finalizing these lots up.  If there's any interest, I'd be happy to do a tutorial.

Here's a summer shot with the re-jiggered aspens.  If you compare them with the previous post of pics of this area, you'll see what I mean about breaking up the regularity.

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Fall.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg514.imageshack.us%2Fimg514%2F7872%2F07010307ov5.jpg&hash=cf5b05e2519eb646133d06c919d7ed49c4c7641c)

As noted, I will respond to the comments about fall colors- I'm working on an expanded post about 3RR trees generally- it'll be along in a bit.

Winter.

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Yeah...I've got a thing for bare trees.

I've got Kiln House, too [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln_House).

Another summer shot.  I'm using Peg's MTP street mod [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14620) until I figure out something better.

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Same place, fall.

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This is still experimental stuff- far from final.  Hang in there...it'll be worth it.

Later.

Looks like Peg's mod is working well for you.  You must have edited the tree lots so they wouldn't produce sidewalks... you'll have to let me know what lot properties you changed to get that.

3RR is looking good!  Those massive lots have a great look to them.  :)

(That's some serious snow, BTW)

Oh now, I only just found SC4D 3RR Just then... Oh well, I've read through it all.

Looks great! I like it all very much!

Nice work with all the lot-editor stuff too, I could never be bothered...

Hello David (Dedgren), I finally followed your 3RR over from ST and have caught up!  I must tell you, I love your photos of the snow!  Very beautiful (to look at - wouldn't want to live in it!), but does your poor dog stay outside when you're gone?  Can't wait to see what you do with 3RR!

Vicki

Couldn't sleep...

...#&@^! jet lag...

...and I'm not focused enough to post the promised responses, so, to buy some time, here's a bit of

3RR EYE CANDY

These are from Quad 32, which has much higher elevations than Quad 64, where we have been the last few posts.  The bridge is for show- grats, jeroni, on getting your great new bridges into the new NAM.  They may be the best things there.  More on that...

...where have we heard that before?

...later.

#1
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#2
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#3
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#4
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#5
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#6
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_________________________

I'll reassure you, vicki (Fred_Ginger), that Murph probably sleeps better than we do out in the "Dog Palace."  The whole thing is roofed, the pen portion is 8'/2.3m square and has two 250w IR (heat table) lights, a large heated mat and a thick layer of cedar shavings on the floor.  We bring him in most winter nights, but sometimes it's under protest- he really likes it out there...

...and, hey, where else can random barking at 1:45 a.m. have such an effect?
_________________________

Finally, a first 3RR milestone here at its new SC4D home.

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Now, we all know my great aunt in Hoboken visits 20 or so times each day because she loves me, but that leaves lots of room for you folks here at SC4D.  Thanks so much to each of you for continuing to check 3RR out, and thanks again jeroni for making this such a high-quality, low-hassle operation.

I'll be pulling things together over the next few days, and we'll really get going.

Later.

very nice snow picture David!! I'm asking myself how a city can survive with that much snow.. here in Milano (Italy) as soon as snows (5-10cm.) it's chaos!!!!
But... From the pictures it doesn't seem you live in city, there mest bè a lot of peace and silence where you live :)

Edit: WOW 100th post noted just now, thanks for the plaza David!!! :)

WELCOME to page 6!!! ;D

Great pictures and nice trees in fall!

Looks like 3RR 2.0 is coming along nicely. Keep up the good work David!

hi my friend how are you,amazing things you are doing,excellent work and pics

I just thought, before I went to bed, it might be nice to recognize the 100th comment [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg4803#msg4803) here since 3RR arrived at SC4D.

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Grazie tanto per tutti, mio amico!

Thanks to all for your great comments!


David

Good morning and Happy New Year, David!  It's been a few days since I've had an opportunity to stop by 3RR and am thrilled with your progress!  Here in Colorado we have many, many aspen groves, and what you are doing with the aspens in 3RR looks fantastic!  I know several have commented that there is too much yellow in some of your pics of the seasonal trees, but I think they look great.  Although various shades of reds and oranges are common in many landscapes, when you are talking aspens, golden yellow is the order of the day.  However, I do have a suggestion.  In my experience, aspens appear more in groves and do not always blanket an area (admittedly my experience is rather limited as I am not all that well traveled as it seems you are!).  Have you considered breaking up the aspens with conifers?  I think this would provide a more natural look.  Regardless, I like what you have done.

New Jeroni bridges in the new NAM?!?  Can't wait until this is available!

Glad you made it safely home!  Yes, it is a lot of snow, but beautiful at the same time!  If you ask me, Murphy looks kinda PO'd about something, but since I don't know him, maybe that is the way he always looks, lol!  That dog house sounds pretty nice, so I can't imagine he would have anything to complain about.  Probably just lonely.

Congrats  &apls on 1,000 views and 100 comments!

I envy you and all your snow!!!

Oh, and 3RR looks nice.  :D

Great work with eye candy, David, and the snow from the cheat modd. But I don't know where or how I can download the cheat mod. &mmm                 
And it looks very cold in Alaska. Here the slowest temperature was the past week, at -5ºC, but it didn't snow because there aren't clouds since a month in this part of Spain, David.
And I'm impressed that Murphy survived the snow fall.

This is 3RR, as always, a good place to discover things...

Cristian

David, Great updates as always.  I live in Wisconsin and can't stand when we get a little snow.

I have a question for you on your Map.  In the SE Corner near the peninsula you have a river running North then heading East.  When you go to work in the Quads with that river do you lower the river.  Because all I am getting is a low beach and not much water. 

Wow! I love all the colours in the seasonal pics! It makes it so realistic, great job!

David, that is not fair, the snow cheat is supposed to be used in game not in RL  $%Grinno$% :P :D

A Field Guide to the Trees of Three Rivers Region

Coniferous Trees


Balsam fir (Abies balsamea var ponderosaii)

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Balsam fir is a medium size fir; height 40' to 60' with continuous straight tapering trunk from root to top; diameter 9" to 20" or more; spreading branches form a handsome, symmetrical, slender pyramid.  Older taller trees lose lower limbs and have branches only from the top half of the tree up.  Its bark is smooth, grayish, and prominently marked by blisters filled with resin or balsam pitch.  Its needles are flat; length 1/2" to 1" with rounded point; medium green and lustrous above and silvery-white beneath; arranged on twigs growing in two ranks; The twigs and needles are resinous and fragrant.  Balsam fir bears cones upright on branches, purple, oblong; length 2" to 4"; become ripe in the autumn of the first year; cone scale wider than long; seeds have very wide wings, and when ripe, fall together with scales of cone, leaving hard central axis standing upright on twig like a spike.

This tree is found in the lower upland pine forests of Three Rivers Region; usually associated with stands of aspen; thrives in cool, damp, places; very shade-tolerant.


Black spruce (Picea mariana)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F4436%2Fblacspruce01wa5.png&hash=c76e9875574f8955d254f8554e594cd5a74f0bbf)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg452.imageshack.us%2Fimg452%2F9174%2Fblacspruce02ca1.png&hash=97c99dfeb6ec981c40c2f975d371b0777849e3ea)

Black spruce is a tree commonly found on or near lakeshores and river and stream banks.  It has a straight trunk up to 12" in diameter with some-what drooping branches; mature tree usually reaches a height of 20' to 30', although under favorable conditions, it can attain a height of 70' to 80'; often associated with balsam fir. In cold swamps the growth is practically stagnant and trees 2" in diameter have been found to be 127 years old.  The bark is grayish- to reddish-brown and scaly.  The needles are bluish-green, short, pointed, four-sided; length 1/2"; found scattered thinly over branches.  It bears cones that are oval shaped, length 1/2" to 1 1/2"; young cones purple, mature cones dark brown, remaining on trees indefinitely; open in the fall to liberate seeds; seeds small, dark brown, and winged, mature in one season.

Black spruce is found near water throughout the region except for the area immediately adjacent to Hotham Inlet, where jack pine, locally called shore pine, replaces it.  The tree is shade-tolerant; common marsh or bog species.


Jack (Shore) pine (Pinus banksiana var Hothamii)

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Jack, locally called shore, pine has a straight trunk; height 25' to 60'; diameter 8" to 20"; top or crown of spreading branches and scant or open foliage. Small dead branches often remain on trees for many years.  Its bark is dull red-brown; irregularly divided into small scales.  Its needles are 3/4" to 1 1/2" long, stubby, flat, grayish-green; two in a bundle and slightly twisted; remain on branchlets for about three years.  Cones are about 1 1/2" long, often strongly curved, brown when ripe, turning gray later, sometimes remaining on branches unopened and containing good seeds for many years; small winged, triangular seeds can be carried far in strong winds. Many trees have ripe cones when seven years old.

Jack pine is found in abundance in along the shores of Hotham Inlet, on Pratt and High Islands, Iron Hook Cape and along the banks of the lower Wind and Grand Rivers.  It occurs generally in pure stands on the poor sandy soil of lake and river shores, and will sometimes spring up and occupy inshore lands following fire until replaced by other local trees.  The tree is hardy and thrives on soil too poor for other cone-bearing trees; very shade-intolerant.


Red pine (Pinus resinosa var fictitiaii)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg70.imageshack.us%2Fimg70%2F7867%2Fredpine01yp5.png&hash=2ea4926e4c00724c978602488c8afccbcc4c8cd1)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg452.imageshack.us%2Fimg452%2F1275%2Fredpine02ki5.png&hash=2525050d825da0c0a94a5dd0c25370a9832299eb)

Red pine is a large to giant upland pine with a height 80' to 100', sometimes 140', diameter 50" to 80"; straight trunk; branches on mature trees start far up the tree and form an open, pointed, picturesque head that towers above the other trees in the area.  It is locally mistermed eastern redwood.  The bark becomes divided into large reddish-brown plates as it matures, which gives tree its characteristic appearance and its name, red pine.  Needles occur in clusters of two; dark green; 4" to 6"; breaks cleanly when bent.  Cones are about 2" long, light brown fading to gray; thin, slightly concave.  Cone scales are without spines or prickles and are free from resin; cones ripen about the middle of September of their second season, but stay on branchlets until following spring or summer; seeds small, length about 1/8", dark or mottled brown, winged, and widely scattered by the wind.

Red pine is found along the bluffs and on mountainsides and hillsides of the Northern and Southern Ranges.  It is commonly found growing with or near the northern white pine common to the area.  It has excellent disease and insect resistance and the wood is commercially very valuable.  The tree thrives on sandy loam or dry, rocky ridges, and is shade-intolerant.

White spruce (Picea glauca var montainaii)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F82%2Fwhitespruce01bl3.png&hash=3bf7343e12e919cb46211a3fc4e96deac251465d)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F6581%2Fwhitespruce02qp0.png&hash=5291eda69aca7ec9b62ef0803026f58d8a1734fa)

White spruce is a squat, stout conifer usually 30' to 50', occasionally 60', with a diameter of 20" that grows in the highest mountain and hill areas of Three Rivers Region.  The tree has a straight trunk; stubby, stout branches form broad conical head.  The bark of this tree is dark gray or gray-brown and scaly.  The term "white spruce" comes from the tree commonly being seen covered with snow in winter.  The needles are four-sided, crowded along branchlets; length 1/3" to 3/4"; pale bluish when young, dark bluish-green to bluish-black when mature; sharply pointed; has a slightly disagreeable odor when crushed.  The tree bears a slender cone, length about 2"; cone scales round and soft at ends; cone thin and flexible when mature; narrow-winged seeds mature in one season; cones drop during winter after opening and shedding seeds.

The tree grows extensively in the higher mountain and hill areas of Three Rivers Region up to tree-line.  It thrives on dry and rocky soils associated with these areas; intermediate in shade tolerance.


Northern white pine (Pinus strobus var northeii)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg452.imageshack.us%2Fimg452%2F7527%2Fnorthernwhitepine01hu1.png&hash=75a7653f67b73046a0527c99c442107db0a856fc)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F4305%2Fnorthernwhitepine02fs6.png&hash=426273226aa281fdc23a14637d926c6d0fed0d8d)

Northern white pine is a large tree 50' to 80'; up to 40" in diameter; straight trunk and regular pyramidal shape with soft gray-green foliage; often like red pine clear of branches for many feet when growing in the forest; on young trees, branches extend horizontally in whorls (circle arrangements), marking successive years of upward growth.  The bark is thin, smooth, and greenish-gray on young trees, but thick, deeply furrowed, and grayish-brown on older trees.  Needles are 2 1/2" to 5" long; bluish-green on upper surface, whitish beneath; occurs in bundles of five; soft, flexible.  Cones are 4" to 8" long, cylindrical with thin and usually very gummy scales, each containing two small winged seeds; cones mature at end of second season.

Northern white pine is important in upland areas throughout the region and is commonly found with growing with red pine; thrives on fertile, well-drained soil; intermediate in shade tolerance. The wood from the tree is commercially valuable, but it is increasingly difficult to find the formerly abundant large trees that were the basis for the Three Rivers Region paper products industry in the mid 1900s.  White pine blister rust, white pine weevil, and deer browsing are problems that take a heavy toll on the tree's survival.


Based on copyrighted work done by Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. 2007. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Web Site (online). Accessed 2007-1-4 at http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/sitetools/copyright.html
________________________

n.b.:  tkirch- I'm on your question and I'll get back to you later in the day.

Sweet work there dedgren  &apls....one of those rare moments when sleeplessness pays off :thumbsup:

Whoa, it's amazing to see just how much detail you put into making your forests. That was an interesting read, and an educational one at that!  :D

 ???
Wow David,
     I've got a degree in Wildlife Management and I didn't learn that much in all the botany and related subject I had to take.   LOL    Are you sure about the latin names?

QuoteRed pine (Pinus resinosa var fictitiaii)

LINKIE (http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/presinosa.htm)   Okay I should have known better than to question the master.   LOL   I'm still not so sure about the variety of red pine.    But I'll give you that one.   ::)


---Gaston

Like your_adress_here said, very educational. I like it ;) Impressive work  :thumbsup:

LP

Every time you update, I learn something, usually about SC4, but this time, it's about the trees! Like many have pointed out, it's very educational, but I also applaud your creativity for even thinking of an update like that. From where did you find all this information, or are you a dendrologist by night?

tkirch indicated here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg4860#msg4860) that he had a problem with a too shallow river on one of the 3RR maps he imported from off the STEX.

QuoteIn the SE Corner near the peninsula you have a river running North then heading East.  When you go to work in the Quads with that river do you lower the river.  Because all I am getting is a low beach and not much water.

I looked at the quad in question- that's the Des Plaines River, btw.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg412.imageshack.us%2Fimg412%2F842%2F0701054km1.png&hash=78b3a5a6966dc33e0ff57bddc24366d254824728)

Mine seems just fine.  I note that I never change the default "game" water level, as doing so has always had weird consequences.  The Des Plaines is very shallow, though.  Probably, I created the river after a long day's terraforming and was simply too tired to dig any deeper...

Actually, I think the trouble you are having is just an artifact of the process of turning the region into an .SC4TF map, uploading it to the STEX, then you DLing it and processing it at your end.  Some water musta leaked out along the way.  Or, more likely, the process doesn't allow perfect reading of the elevation of subaqueous bottoms (I've always loved that term) when you create the region in SC4TF or the Mapper at your end.

Whatever...

Anyway, how do we fix it?

Since you are in Canada, you'll have to start by applying to the agency that is the counterpart of the USEPA for a dredging permit

...let's try that again, shall we?

Open the region in question and get into the "God Mode" cheat [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=74819&enterthread&STARTPAGE=9#God_Mode_Cheat).

Select the "Plains" terraforming tool.

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Reduce the size of the tooltip to its smallest diameter by pressing the [ Shift ] and [ 1 ] keys at the same time.  Position the tooltip in a place in the streambed of appropriate depth near the area you are making deeper.  Click-drag the tooltip along the streambed.

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Repeat as necessary.

Once you've achieved the desired depth, you'll probably find that the stream is wider and more "regular" than you want it to be.  Using the same reduced-size tooltip, position it on a stream bank where you want to narrow or otherwise add "noise" to the edges of the stream.  Click-drag toward the stream in short "brushing" motions.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F8969%2F07010503rf1.jpg&hash=79d1ebaa61598635468a63ef8c72b782b93f4a8d)

Repeat as necessary.

That's how I do it, anyway.  PM me if I can be of further help with this.


David

David,
    Once again you have taken something complicated and made it so easy for everyone to understand.   In one post we now know how to make a tool, that I have never found particularly useful, very useful.     You are still in my opinion, The Terraforming Guru!

---Gaston

Another brilliant lesson from the master! Gaston is correct--you are the Terraforming Guru!

I love all the mini tutorials and lessons :thumbsup: I'm learning so much :P

The info you have provided for the trees of 3RR is simply superb!

Quote from: Gaston on January 05, 2007, 03:50:49 PM
You are still in my opinion, The Terraforming Guru!

I am in complete agreement! Thanks for sharing your terraforming techniques!

David,

Thank you, your tutorials are amazing.  This whole journal is amazing.

Todd

Here's the remainder of

A Field Guide to the Trees of Three Rivers Region

Deciduous Trees


American elm (Ulmus americana)

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American elms are large trees, height usually 50' to 70' with a diameter of 24" to 48", although they can reach a height of 100' with a diameter of up to 48"; wide spreading branches that droop at the ends; crown is vase-shaped.  The bark is dark, ashy gray; divided into irregular, flat-topped, thick ridges; generally firm, although on older trees it tends to come off in flakes; outer bark layers alternating white and reddish-brown in cross section.  Leaves are simple, alternate on stem, length 4" to 6"; rather thick, somewhat one-sided, dark green, doubly toothed on margin, generally rough above, smooth below; veins very pronounced, running in parallel lines from mid-rib to edge of leaf; turns yellow in autumn.  The fruit, which is in the form of a seed, is a winged samara, light green, oval, and waferlike in appearance; seed portion in center surrounded entirely by the wing; outer end of each wing deeply notched; seeds hang in clusters, ripen in spring, and are widely scattered by the wind.

American elm is hardy throughout Three Rivers Region; more abundant on rich bottom lands; moderately shade-tolerant, fast-growing. Very susceptible to Dutch Elm disease, although this condition has not had the terrible effect on the region's elms that it has had elsewhere in North America.


Cottonwood (Populus deltoides var. occidentalis)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg243.imageshack.us%2Fimg243%2F5903%2Fcottonwood01rb5.png&hash=7a736dda6561eacce50f175e6ab840ba1e9c35ba)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F3789%2Fcottonwood02pf9.png&hash=358adcae3dec07087699c1a6f631f4132acd5ebd)

Cottonwoods are large trees, 50' to 80' tall, diameter 36" to over 48"; developing first a narrow, conical crown that with maturity becomes broad and open supported by a massive trunk.  The bark is light gray on young trees and dark gray and rough on older trees.  Leaves are simple, alternate on stem, 3" to 5" long, nearly as wide; broadly ovate or triangular, pointed, square at base, finely toothed or wavy on edges; covered with soft white hairs on underside; slender stems from 2" to 3" long are flattened; winter buds covered with chestnut-brown, resinous scales; turns yellow to yellowish-orange in autumn.  The tree's fruit, in the form of a seed, is two to four, valved, thin capsules borne on short stock in drooping "catkins"; seeds, when set free in late May or June, are minute, pale, brownish-white, enclosed in a cluster of white cottony hairs that carry them for long distances. There are two kinds of flowers borne separately on different trees; female trees throw cotton.

Cottonwood is found throughout Three Rivers Region, often in conjunction with aspen.  The tree often forms extensive groves; will grow on dry locations but makes most rapid progress on moist sites; shade-intolerant, very fast-growing.  The region's farmers frequently planted these trees in the late 1800s and early 1900s along roads and lanes and between fields as windrows.


Northern red oak (Quercus borealis)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg444.imageshack.us%2Fimg444%2F8157%2Fredoak01ll4.png&hash=75b82977098c20d0e51103b67a26be7485fdf74d)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F9615%2Fredoak02xj3.png&hash=e4e82f3a01737f7b1a837ce405af57f048ca3a85)

Northern red oak is a medium to large tree 50' to 65' in height with diameters at maturity ranging from 18" to 24"; tall and straight with clear trunk and narrow crown  The bark on young stems is smooth, dark gray to dark brown; on older trees, thick and brown broken by shallow fissures into regular, flat, smooth-surfaced vertical plates.  Leaves are simple, alternate on stem, length 5" to 9"; divided into seven to nine lobes, each extending halfway to the midrib; each lobe somewhat coarsely toothed, bristle-tipped, firm; dull green above, paler below, often turning a brilliant red in fall. Buds thick and pointed at top.  The tree's fruit is in the form of a large, bitter acorn, maturing the second year; length 3/4" to nearly 2"; blunt-topped, flat at base with base enclosed in a very shallow, dark brown cup. Acorns are an important winter food source for the region's squirrels, deer, wild turkeys, and several songbirds.

Northern red oak grows throughout Three Rivers Region, but is most common and of best quality in the rich soil of bottom land along the lower Grand and Wind Rivers, and along the Fox River; moderately shade-tolerant, fast-growing. Very susceptible to oak wilt fungus.


Aspen (Populus tremuloides var goldenis northeii)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg81.imageshack.us%2Fimg81%2F6201%2Faspen01bm2.png&hash=65a551e214fc40d9d0120b8623f5290f04190842)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg144.imageshack.us%2Fimg144%2F4995%2Faspen02ck4.png&hash=2ffcffb26e67b8610f795dc35fa32b46ab0b1148)

Aspen takes the form of a small to medium size tree; taller ones may reach height of 65' and diameter of 12" to 20", but usually somewhat smaller at 30' to 50'; open, rounded crown; young branchlets are reddish-brown and shiny, becoming gray and roughened after first year.  The bark is thin, white to gray-green, almost smooth with black areas around base of limbs; becomes grayish and warty or deeply furrowed.  Leaves are simple, alternate on stem; small, broadly oval, short-pointed at end and finely toothed along margin; green and shiny above, dull green below; usually ranges in size from 1" to 2" but often 4" or more in length as well as in width on vigorous young shoots. Leafstalks are flattened at right angles to leaves, causing leaves to quake or tremble in a very slight breeze.  The leaves turn brilliant gold or yellow in the the fall of the year.  The tree fruits in late spring (May or June) before full expansion of leaves; consists of cottony mass (catkin) containing tiny round light brown seeds that usually germinate in a few hours after they release from the tree.

Found in the upland areas of Three Rivers Region; one of the first species to appear after cutting or fire; it will colonize cutover land, but is quickly replaces by cottonwoods, maple and oaks; grows well on sandy, gravelly soils but thrives better on good soil; shade-intolerant, fast-growing.


Red maple (Acer rubrum)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F5784%2Fredmaple01al4.png&hash=5a15d2bf68a13163533117acafcbeb29d15df3ba)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F4669%2Fredmaple02us7.png&hash=6fa58016074cab82d68c9a6f830cf4db5cd60c79)

Red maple is a medium-sized shade tree, height 40' to 65' with diameters of 10" to 24"; broad, round crown; moderately long, clear trunk.  The bark is smooth, light gray on young stems, dark gray and rough on old limbs and trunk; old bark divided by shallow, flaky ridges at surface, making tree look shaggy.  Leaves are simple, opposite on stem, length 2" to 4"; has three- to five-pointed saw-toothed lobes separated by sharp angular openings; upper surface is light green when mature; lower surface is whitish and partly covered with pale down; first of the maples to turn brilliant shades of red, orange, and yellow in autumn. Winter buds are small, red, and somewhat rounded.  Fruit, in the form of seed, appear as u-shaped pairs of winged seeds (samaras), 1/2" to 1" in length, on long, drooping stems; red, reddish-brown, or yellow; ripens in late spring or early summer.

Red maple is distributed throughout the areas of lower elevation of Three Rivers Region.  The tree is shade-tolerant, moderately fast-growing.


Sugar maple (Acer saccharum)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F1034%2Fsugarmaple01ph0.png&hash=375a252ddb1d07a8a3ce829f91aa1a9499000752)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F508%2Fsugarmaple02mz1.png&hash=b2d80e774a039bb9d0d3683aaf6cbc448f221708)

Sugar maples are 60' or more in height with a diameter of up to 24" or more.  The tree has a symmetrically rounded crown.  The bark on young trees is light gray to brown and somewhat smooth; on older trees gray to almost black with irregular plates or scales. Twigs are smooth and reddish-brown with sharp-pointed winter buds.  Leaves are simple, opposite on stem, length 3" to 5"; three- to five-pointed, smooth-edged lobes; division between lobes rounded; dark green on upper surface, lighter green below; in autumn turns to brilliant shades of dark red, scarlet, orange, or yellow.  The fruit, in the form of seeds, consists of two slightly connected wings (samaras), each containing one seed; length about 1"; easily carried by the wind.

Sugar maple grows in cool, rich locations generally not far from the lakes, rivers and streams of the region; very shade-tolerant, slow-growing.  It provides the basis for the increasingly significant quantity of "boutique" maple syrup products that have become emblematic of the region.


White oak (Quercus alba)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F5786%2Fwhiteoak01ws4.png&hash=4cd8477d92619f50c54d5292e6bbae8f0676eda7)     (https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F7196%2Fwhiteoak02oh0.png&hash=d7af2fcc1dca2bce088e578c6c435d9d9a92108d)

White oaks are large trees 60' to 80' in height with a diameter of 24" to 36", although they can grow larger.  The tree is tall and narrow-crowned in the forest; short in the open, crowned by a broad, rounded top with limbs spreading irregularly; well-grown specimens are strikingly beautiful.  The bark is pale gray with scaly ridges and shallow fissures.  Leaves are simple, alternate on stem, length 5" to 9" and about half as broad; crowded toward ends of twigs, deeply divided into five to nine fingerlike lobes; young leaf yellow or red while unfolding, later becoming light green above and much paler below; turns red or brown in autumn; sometimes remains on tree most of the winter.  The tree fruits in the form of light brown acorns maturing the first year, length 3/4" to 1", about one-fourth of it is enclosed in a bowl-shaped cap. These acorns are a valuable fall food source for many wildlife species.

In Three Rivers Region, white oaks are at the northern extent of their range in North America, so they do not form the dense stands found only a few hundred miles to the south in the midwestern United States.  The tree grows on heavy, well-drained acid soil; slow-growing; difficult to transplant after passing seedling state. White oak is a fine permanent tree that should be planted wherever there is available space and the soil is suitable.

Based on copyrighted work done by Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. 2007. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Web Site (online). Accessed 2007-1-4 at http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/sitetools/copyright.html

I very much enjoyed the tree tutorial David.
Using in-game shots of the various varieties in really neat.
I'd say I like the White Oak and Sugar Maples best, even thought I'm normally more fond of evergreens.

Very useful tutorial on terraforming river beds too!

Phil

Very nice field guide you have done there :thumbsup:

Hi David, this is being very pleasant to read and look at. These last trees posts are very vell done, very elegant and very interesting  :thumbsup:

Awesome work Dedgren! I'm loving the tree guide :P

School was never this much fun! &apls

I learn something new everyday just following 3RR. &apls

The amouont of information you gift us with is amazing. Super clear instructions on how to use tools not explained much, to background info on the trees we use in game, to topography lessons, the list is endless.

Thank you. (is not enough!!!)

n.b.  The growing back story for 3RR, which continues to be a work in progress.  Old text is in black, new in blue.  There are several new pics.  Additional changes, mostly the material expanding on poutine along with the picture of that dish, were made on 01-08-07.  DE

Location and Physical Setting

Three Rivers Region ("3RR") is a 1,600 square mile/4,096 square kilometer area of land located on the North American continent at about 49 degrees north latitude and 95 degrees west longitude.  Its area forms a square 40 miles/64 kilometers on a side.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg444.imageshack.us%2Fimg444%2F9738%2F3rr162latlon1024ml3.png&hash=08aaf9c3acd2e4eab8c208fe159469b5f80a79ec)

The Grand Meridian is the map line formed by 95 degrees west longitude as it passes through Three Rivers Region.  This principal meridian was not in fact named after the Grand River that empties into Hotham Inlet at Pineshore; this is a local misnomer (albeit an understandable one given local pride).  The meridian was named after Simon deBeauville Grand, a French-English trapper and freebooter of little repute who frequented parts several hundred miles to the south of the region until his untimely death at age 37 during a gas-passing contest with the soldiers of F Troop at Camp Heckawi during the winter of 1846.  The Grand Meridian is unremarkable, passing through no other place of any comparable importance to the region along its entire distance between the North and South Poles.

Three Rivers Region lies on the northwest shore of the highest of the great lakes of the region (surface elevation  820 feet/250 meters above sea level), which drains the three large rivers of the region out through Lake Superior and on to the Atlantic Ocean.  The final phase of the St. Lawrence Seaway project, completed in the 1970s, makes the region the home to North America's most inland containerized port, and the one most convenient to the agricultural and mineral lands of great plains Canada and the northern United States east of the Rockies.  3RR's port facilities are among the most advanced in the world.

The region shares with Canada along its northern boundary the Northern Range, an east-west lying mountainous area about 75 miles/120 kilometers in length and 20 miles/32 kilometers wide at its greatest north-south axis.  To the south and west, the region shares with the United States the Southern Range.  These mountains, which occupy a roughly diamond-shaped area 30 miles/48 kilometers from north to south and east to west, host the southeasternmost glaciers on the North American continent.  Like the Mesabi Range to the east, the Southern Range is heavily mineralized, and was mined significantly for iron and other ores in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Sovereignty and Governance

Three Rivers Region is self-governing under the Treaty of 1839 with Canada and the United States.  The region  enjoys close relations with both countries, but strictly observes its national motto:


which loosely translates as, "You mind your business and we'll mind ours."

Diplomatic relations are maintained with most of the democratic nations of the world, but 3RR has no embassies in other countries.  It welcome other nations, however, to maintain diplomats in the region.  3RR's foreign policy, to the extent it has one, is modeled on that of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.  The governmental and administrative center of 3RR is the city of Pineshore.

Population

The only urban place in Three Rivers Region of any appreciable size is the city of Pineshore, which has a total population of about 1,200,000 inhabitants.  Pineshore is situated in the south-center of the region  at the mouths of the Grand and Wind Rivers.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg216.imageshack.us%2Fimg216%2F3338%2F3rr162pineshore800bv8.png&hash=e57812b8f7ba696142558060bef1b6ee87a921b3)

Suburban areas surrounding the city have a combined population of about another 500,000 people.  Small cities, towns and villages spread across the rest of the region bring the area's total population to about two million.  The region's population growth is essentally flat, with deaths and a small outmigration roughly equalling births since the 1980s.  Life expectancy is substantially longer than the North American average at 89 years for women and 86.5 years for men.

Early History

The Three Rivers Region area was first explored by French and English trappers and traders in the early 1800s.  The abundance of fur bearing animals in the area such as beaver and fox led to the establishment of a trading post on High Island by 1820.  There were aboriginals, mostly Chippewa and Assiniboine, that frequented the area that ultimately became 3RR, but no permanent aboriginal settlements are known to have existed.

Pineshore was founded in 1823 as a fur trading encampment originally named De Pere.  The original name was not, as many believe, in honor of the French trader and explorer; rather it was the first thing said on resurfacing ("Deep here!") by the faithful Native American guide of the Rochamboullet party after stepping out of his canoe into what he thought were shallow waters near shore in preparation for setting up camp for the night.  The name De Pere was abandoned in favor of Pineshore some 30 years later in the fit of completely irrational anti-French xenophobia that swept North America's upper Midwestern regions at that time.

By the 1830s, farmers had begun to move into the area attracted by its fertile prairies, ease of shipping, and, due to the configuration of the mountains to the north, west and south, relatively mild winters and long growing season for being so far north.  Situated, as noted, at the mouths of the Grand and Wind Rivers, Pineshore quickly grew into a local transportation hub the like of which was not again reached west of Duluth until at least Moose Jaw.  The old saying, now sadly forgotten, that "You can't get to Kenora without changing canoes in Pineshore" originated during this period.

The week-long "War of Hickam's Knee," which arose over the rumor that the U.S. and Canadian governments were colluding in imposing a tax on local all-you-can-eat  smörgåsbord-style dining establishments  resulted in independence under the aforementioned Treaty of 1839 when each of those nations, on the mistaken notion that 3RR was on the other side of the national border, ceded all claims to the region without a shot being fired.  By the time this error was recognized, 3RR's residents had taken the ball and run with it, establishing a regional government that stands today as a model of efficiency and just administration unique in the world.

By 1900, the population of Pineshore had grown to almost 60,000 inhabitants, about 80% of the 1,600 square mile region's population.  The regional government had a total budget that year of 214,000 simoleans (the simolean, for obscure reasons to complicated to explain here, was formerly pegged until the advent of the Euro to the Portuguese escudo; it is now a free-floating currency on its own and currently trades at about par with the Canadian dollar), most of which was raised through library fines and moorage charges.  The Regional Council ("RC"), consisting then as now of 23 members, met monthly in spare warehouse space (if for no other reason, to play the national game: five card stud poker- jokers and one-eyed jacks wild) at the foot of Second Avenue on the Grand River in Pineshore.  These premises, now fallen into substantial disrepair, are the object of competing efforts to have them designated historic and to have them torn down as part of a waterfront freeway project.  The government has moved on, of course, to the new administrative complex constructed in West Pineshore in the 1960s.

Transportation

Railroads reached Three Rivers Region in the 1850s, bringing a new era of economic growth along with a whole host of communicable diseases theretofore unknown to the region.  Rails quickly connected the region to the growing cities of the U.S. midwest and Canadian plains.  It is locally contended that poutine, an incomprehensible mixture of fried potatoes, gravy and cheese curds,

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg145.imageshack.us%2Fimg145%2F1276%2Fpoutinenc4.jpg&hash=6247222c5f9037e3e99c7146406ee9787d282402)

was invented in Pineshore in 1863 as a way of efficiently feeding hungry railroad crews and reducing the growing surplus of locally produced agricultural products.  Poutine was honored by being designated as the region's official convenience food in 1993 and is a main dish at all governmental functions where food is served.  The advent of the automobile increased Three Rivers Region's links with the heartland of North America, and truck and rail transport now surpass, but not by much, shipments of goods and commodities through 3RR's port city of Nelson.  Three Rivers Region International Airport has become a major hub for several airlines, and its airfreight capacity now rivals cities like Memphis, Tennessee.

Agriculture and Industry

The area has come to be a significant producer of crops such as corn, wheat, sorghum, milo and soybeans.  Regional development plans have been put into place to strictly limit the conversion of farmland to non-agricultural uses- this and a favorable taxation scheme insures that the rural character of the region outside of Pineshore and its suburbs remains strong and vibrant.  A strong high-tech industrial sector based on agricultural feedstocks for products such as plastics and alternative fuels has developed and presents new opportunities to grow 3RR's economy in the first decades of the 21st century.

Not to be overlooked is 3RR's industrial potential generally.  The discovery of the world's largest deposits of upsidasium shortly after the Second World War left the region, until the crash in demand for the mineral in the late 1960s, a major extractive resource producer.  Mining is still active in 3RR producing coal, iron ore and a range of other minerals, and substantial industrial capacity remains to process the production from these operations.  The region also has a strong manufacturing sector, producing everything from heavy equipment all the way to the most advanced integrated circuits and other electronics.

Climate

Three Rivers Region has a "continental" climate, with snowy winters and warm, sunny summers with moderate precipitation.  The following bar chart shows the year's average daily temperatures.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F605%2F06122301fn7.png&hash=4eaab83cdc4f3ccee7ed2bf965229f80e5286d31)
(conversion: 10ºF = -12 ºC, 20ºF = -6 ºC, 30ºF = -1 ºC, 40ºF = 4ºC, 50ºF = 10ºC, 60ºF = -16ºC, 70ºF = 21ºC)

The growing season in 3RR is 120-130 days long.  The region is in USDA Growing Zone 4a.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F526%2F06122401lw3.jpg&hash=c3772ff40f4b23c1152c3b7b95d4d0c727b64ddd)

David,

I realize that you are still developing the story for 3RR, but I just had to comment anyway.  What you have done so far is supremely entertaining!  :D I'm fascinated with your creativity and humor!  Can't wait for more!

I like the ever-growing backstory that you are working on, it's very factual and educational, yet also very compelling. I see that Mr. Grand is a freebooter, a word which can be linked to the term "filibuster" through the Dutch vrijbuiter, at least according to West Wing episode entitled "The Stackhouse Filibuster."

And speaking of Mr. Grand, who won the contest between him and F Troop--Corporal Agarn or Sergeant O'Rourke? Anyway...very interesting stuff, looking forward to seeing more.

David,

What a great continuation of 3RR. I love the history and especcially the smorgasbrot-uprising is a nice and humerous touch as well as the addition of local sayings such as: "You can't get to Kenora without changing canoes in Pineshore".  &apls

I guess the hi-tech industry might find also another solution to the upsidasium problem once again bringing in the wealth of this mineral.  :thumbsup:

Nik-Nik
PS. go to bed it's about 1 AM in Alaska!

I'll be moving on from the recent focus on trees and updates may come a bit more slowly as a result.  I thought, though, that you might like the following.

Early spring.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg145.imageshack.us%2Fimg145%2F3449%2F07010801yu6.jpg&hash=537078eec974b903089181590c6af8d2698f2f82)

Early fall.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg106.imageshack.us%2Fimg106%2F9887%2F07010802hy0.jpg&hash=df0c884c7ceba5fdcda3ec450bf44f8a72e42910)

Winter before the first snow.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F5498%2F07010803zk9.jpg&hash=9c9efed85b90267fcaa08c0fa62273e044e5986f)

It's a shame cycledogg's great terrain textures don't turn with the seasons, but that's picking at nits.

Don't miss the updated 3RR back story here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5238#msg5238).

QuoteIt's a shame cycledogg's great terrain textures don't turn with the seasons, but that's picking at nits.

Ahhh. I have to admit, this made me smile a little. Must be an early Monday morning thing ;)
Nice little update. Leave's me wanting more (which is sorta the point).

Phil

Wow!  So much posting this weekend (and still time for a PM).  Your two part update on the trees was excellent...very well thought out.  The back story is equally entertaining.  Poor Simon deBeauville Grand - what a way to go!!  I'm looking forward to what comes next in 3RR!

-Stephen

Very nice work Dedgren :thumbsup: Very enteraining history and information :thumbsup:

Nice update, I've always liked it when theres a good history behind the region. Although, I hope you do know that it was us Québequois who invented poutine.  ;)

Nice information and using of trees!

Sorry for my recent absence (computer problems and whatnot), but I have been keeping an eye on this in my free time and I have tp say that everything (trees of the region, region history, etc) is absolutly amazing. You've added another layer of realism and, at the same time, made it easier for those who will be helping develop the region to keep it aligned with your vision. Keep it up.

Hi, David,

Nice background with the tree descriptions and history of 3RR.  Too bad about the smorgasbord tax--did the war start with the rebels, disguised as Chippewa Indians, sneaking into the all-you-can-eat establishments, seizing the vats of steaming food, and dumping the contents into the Hotham Inlet Harbor?  Maybe that was when they first came up with the recipe for poutine?  Oh, maybe I'm confused with some other history...

And each country thought the territory belonged to the other?  Too bad that can't happen in the Middle East...

Well, it all "came out" well and humorously for those of us who follow the 3RR saga.  Here's to poor deBeauville Grand, taken young by pride of flatulence, a lesson best accepted by us all.

--Liv

When I hate Poutine today, I thought of 3RR in my mind !  $%Grinno$%

Nice landscapes !

I posted this over at ST earlier today in response to a question asked in the thread, but thought it might be of interest here as well.
__________________________

On the 8th of this month, my friend Grneyes78 asked

QuoteDavid, somewhere in the beginning of this CJ you mention setting the simoleans to a couple of billion. How do you that?

Well...

...you have questions...

   ...we have answers!

First off, let me note one more time my position on cheating adjusting game parameters.

I think it's unfortunate that, with respect to Sim City, Maxis/EA ever promoted the notion that the ability to modify certain game settings was "cheating" in the first place.  Why do I say this?  Well, after all, those folks were the ones who used the term- check it out in the little booklet you got when you bought the game.  The way I see it, in order to accomplish the act of "cheating," someone or something needs to get cheated.  In SC4- who or what?

The game is non-competitive (oh sure, there's scenario play, but who has ever bothered with that?).  It's not, like...

...the one with the most simoleans...WINS!

I think, by definition, you probably can't cheat any third person in any non-competitive enterprise.  So that leaves two questions- first, are you cheating something when you enter a cheat code?  This necessarily raises the issue of laws and/or rules.  I think it goes without saying that there is probably no way, unless illegal copying of the software is involved, that you can play Sim City that is against the law.  So that leaves rules.  Has anyone ever seen any hard and fast rules applying to how SC4 is played?

? ? ?

I didn't think so.

So, if there's no rules, you can't possibly break them, whether by cheating or in some other manner.

The second question is: Are you cheating yourself when you use a SC4 "cheat?"  Well, who do you think is best positioned to answer that question?  I can only speak for myself, but I play SC4 to recreate.  That in and of itself doesn't answer the question, because I recognize other things as "cheating" while engaged in such.  Cheating at solitaire, for example, by turning over a card when I'm not otherwise entitled.  Doing so (often enough) will let you "win" when you otherwise wouldn't.  But that one's easy.  There are widely agreed upon rules for how solitaire and its variations are played.  Cheating offends those rules, so we're back to question one in that situation.

Let's take a different example- building a house of cards.  I would consider gluing the cards together in order to create a taller or more elaborate house to be cheating.  I would never do that.  Now, I think it could be agreed that there are no rules, formal or otherwise, that are generally agreed upon for building hoses of cards.  It's not (to my knowledge, anyway) a competitive sport.  It is probably the epitome of completely trivial personal recreation.  Yet I feel strongly that the use of glue would be cheating.  The relevant question at this point is, why?

After giving that some thought, I can say for sure that the answer to why is because I feel that gluing the cards together would remove all enjoyment from the enterprise.  The outcome would be foreordained.  With strong enough glue (and, I suppose, cards) you could build a card house that you could reside in, at least until it rained steadily for a few hours.  There's no challenge, no sense of accomplishment.

My sense of challenge and accomplishment when I play SC4 doesn't come from fending off ruination because I'm out of simoleans, or from seeing how many simoleans I have at the end of the session.  I feel good about playing the game when I create something that I think is nifty, or nice to look at, or that gives other folks some degree of enjoyment. I'll set the game up in any way I would want, to include starting out with a billion or so simoleans gained through the "cheat" codes, to the extent that doing so best allows me to accomplish these things.

So, now let me answer the question on the table.

I used to use Daeley's budget adjustment banks [linkie] (http://http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3576) to get additional funds.  They're pretty cool, but since I've become aware of the "Moolah" cheat game parameter adjustment code, I just cut right to the chase and use it.

So let's look at an example.  Here, 3RR Quad 122's treasury only has a piddly 64,000 or so simoleans on hand.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F7683%2F07011001qa6.jpg&hash=155d6570c507be3ab026aa2a3dc26c2aeb7e3e18)

But we want to do big things...

...expensive big things...

So, we'll bring up the cheat game adjustment parameter input box by pressing the [ Ctrl ] and [ X ] keys at the same time.  When the box appears, we type the code Moolah followed by a space and the amount of additional funding we desire, in this case fifty million simoleans.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg388.imageshack.us%2Fimg388%2F4936%2F07011002kp7.jpg&hash=291ab2ce94c381c8b19c89d05d2982b31dfa8387)

After pressing [ Enter ], we see the following.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg123.imageshack.us%2Fimg123%2F2996%2F07011003pv6.jpg&hash=9261243a7078b33c246a82ae239c60bac0b19b44)

Oh, man!  Already spent 172 simoleans.  And that's a heck of a transaction fee, the 63,933 simoleans I had originally have disappeared!  Kind of like the ATM at the corner 7-Eleven [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven).

What the code does is adjust whatever you have in the treasury to the amount you enter, and the game continues from there.

Now, if you are interested in other game adjustment parameters, I commend your attention to this thread [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=83080), where Game Code God Buggi has made available to us the Extra Cheats DLL [linkie] (http://www.epicedit.com/SC4ExtraCheats.zip).  The thread explains all.

Later.

 &apls Amazing work. I love the region you located 3RR in, suites it well. Now I know your a very busy person but as a member of the SCJU (http://s12.invisionfree.com/The_SCJU/index.php?act=site) I'm extending an invite, I Know its not for everyone though.

Game parameter adjustment code? &apls

Thanks for that, I never consider it "cheating" when I use the "Cousin Vinnie" ordinance and now I know what to call it! :thumbsup:

I prefer the park that autosets the budget to 1 mill. It goes "katching!" which is a bonus. ;D

I've made so many "text-heavy" posts over the last little bit that I though everyone might just be up for a little bit of pure

Shameless Eye Candy

I've been using Baronet Island, a mile and one half long by quarter-mile wide island in the lower Grand River

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg132.imageshack.us%2Fimg132%2F3826%2F07011001ib8.png&hash=66414013d4341701ccae1baf84af7f8cb8eceb76)

as a testbed for sharpening my tree placement skills over the past few days.  Here's some pics of the results.

Boot'n her up...
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg465.imageshack.us%2Fimg465%2F1596%2F07011002fo7.jpg&hash=e2d93d81730604a014e50cc136daada7e5ffc835)

A level 2 view.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F9700%2F07011003oa6.jpg&hash=81c3702cb1deab949e6b57c7d1dfacfb5fc1ce4e)

The south end of the island.

Summer.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F6131%2F07011004dm3.jpg&hash=f41308d958ecf52660c372dd0744a56b63d1940d)

Early fall.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F2225%2F07011005ve0.jpg&hash=3d7592a052201a9f9cb8f9c0c6a98d8bfbe47011)

High fall.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg120.imageshack.us%2Fimg120%2F2352%2F07011006oh7.jpg&hash=d3cae011964872fadc58f1c75c2328555dc1ce1a)

Winter.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg180.imageshack.us%2Fimg180%2F3996%2F07011007ml3.jpg&hash=d11c72f3d93eeac78861a2982bbf2096443aa4cf)

Mid island.

Spring.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg120.imageshack.us%2Fimg120%2F7038%2F07011008iy2.jpg&hash=d459cf0ccc0fbf13c32f7c1756d56637c93d585a)

Summer.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg301.imageshack.us%2Fimg301%2F7510%2F07011009qd2.jpg&hash=e02e112013506ece2ccb0fc27f25b2c51f3e97e5)

Early fall 01.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F7732%2F07011010qe9.jpg&hash=cc448ca5c3760cfb45d6a86d72c5d39d7f8ef902)

Early Fall 02.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F5623%2F07011011va3.jpg&hash=6dee40cb4885443bc8e262149dca561ec07a4c4d)

High fall 01.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg465.imageshack.us%2Fimg465%2F3619%2F07011012oa8.jpg&hash=49d2988cd15506762524827554520e4f710eee26)

High fall 02.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg301.imageshack.us%2Fimg301%2F6820%2F07011013yu2.jpg&hash=df9e183f7bc4236ab1266bee47b1fe50cf259fd0)

Late fall.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F1195%2F07011014av1.jpg&hash=e84a88187fade070a47ac041045c2b16bf4a2b59)

Winter.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F5308%2F07011015ca4.jpg&hash=5fece50b1f6779be4a367638ba5e563895443490)

North end - fall.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg180.imageshack.us%2Fimg180%2F8770%2F07011016bc5.jpg&hash=53403e221690e647f81f20ea68f41a4a74befa95)

Closer in.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F2862%2F07011017yp6.jpg&hash=df057fba63ce1120e116a0aac04cfec492fbeb9a)

Up the road a bit.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F8786%2F07011018hq0.jpg&hash=637eb813ecb511379799775c144d9c2d664c5559)

Road junction.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg409.imageshack.us%2Fimg409%2F5452%2F07011019xk4.jpg&hash=51faa9af4755fd72cb3d08c2482b0dc13809a1bc)

Bridge abutment.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg180.imageshack.us%2Fimg180%2F7843%2F07011020xt1.jpg&hash=fe527833b3dffb783e6d1602a3f0873ed77c685b)

Back to the south end - winter.
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F4310%2F07011021es2.jpg&hash=05d570a4b7ef38fd931ce14eb73ac956803de95a)

I think I'm getting better at this, no?

Later.

Well, I didn't think you were "bad" at it to begin with! Baronet Island looks fantastic, especially in the early fall with the yellow and the red trees coming through. I'm also a fan of the seemingly random shot of the bridge abutment, too! I'm happy to see some of the transportation network getting started.

I also happen to agree wholeheartedly with your position on "cheating" in SC4. It's all a matter of your goals. If your goal is to play the game and see how well you can do without using outside methods to acquire funds, then using a money cheat would be considered cheating. Even then, I'm reminded of what Jesse "The Body" Ventura used to say...


Anyway, great update, and I'll be looking forward to more...

Very nice treed areas. Natural looking.  ;)
I never got to follow 3RR at ST.
Might start that beast one day.

More Eye Candy!!
:)



.

Excellent randomization of the trees. Was this accomplished through your lots (if so, great job) or did you place them individually? I particularly like the varying densities across the island. Too often my forests end up being a more or less uniform density. Congratulations on setting the game a step farther ahead.

I'm guessing those are the lots. It looks awesome, and it was an especially smart move to make them interact with the roads in that way (Are they farm lots? It would be really neat to know how you did that since my custom lots always turn up with pink sidewalks).

I'm with thundercrack83. You were good to begin with. These trees look real good to me.
I really nice series of shots. Strangely, I like the winter shots best. Maybe it just reminds me of home.
That bridge abutment is very smooth. You avoided that shart incline right before the bridge edge very well.

An interesting and realistic layout of road running off of the main street (or the other way around, I always get streets and roads confused). The layout is exactly how I would imagine an island like that would have. Do you plan a little development along the spurs?

Phil

Very great pictures! And nice season-changes!

Great work, Dacid. The river and trees views are amazing.
So, with the last link you gave us, we can use the cheat modd?     
If yes, thanks a lot! I needed this one!
Great work as always, David!

Cristian

Hey David,

Well, I wasn't planning on using seasonal trees in a new region I'm building but you've certainly peaked my curiosity!  The eye candy looks great from spring to winter.  I especially like the groves of trees running along beside many of your roads...very picturesque.  Keep up the good work!

-Stephen

The seasonal trees are a beautiful enhancement to an already beautiful landscape!  :thumbsup:

I only consider it cheating if I feel guilty about something I have done in SC4.  Strangely, I have never felt guilty!  ;)

As I get ready to commence the collaboration phase of 3RR, which will let you participate in the development of the region, I am working on cleaning up a few loose ends.  The first of these has to do with the place-name maps I developed and posted over at ST for each quadrant of the region.  That was done in four different posts across several pages.  I now put them here in the same place for the first time.  You can click on any of the map images for a larger view of that quadrant.

3RR-NW [linkie]
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg136.imageshack.us%2Fimg136%2F638%2F3rrnw800vp3.jpg&hash=19fe4c970de1a8dcb3332832c044f563cf415fe6) (http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6348/3rrnwplacenames2400nx4.jpg)

3RR-SW [linkie]
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F5762%2F3rrsw800hn4.jpg&hash=b97d220792edb8efc63e5679289db4b34f4aaa2a) (http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/497/3rrswmap2400vw5.jpg)

3RR-SE [linkie]
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg412.imageshack.us%2Fimg412%2F1139%2F3rrse800jf6.jpg&hash=7ed36a0e6aba18fbacc5ce52709aabd5af06c612) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6710/3rrse061202placemapfullbi9.jpg)

3RR-NE [linkie]
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg136.imageshack.us%2Fimg136%2F5572%2F3rrne800dz7.jpg&hash=58d0699d6c9fb0e141f4784a76b6a663094a05de) (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4565/3rrne06120placemap2400fbs3.jpg)

Please note that I plan to redo the NE map to map it consistent with the others- it's on my list of to-dos.  Again, click on any map image to see the easy-to-read version, which will open in a new window.

More later today.

wonderful regionoverviews!

I love 3RR! By far my favorite map to play on. My main (and only city, so far) is on quadrant 170.  ;D

Heck of a project.  Still looking good.  That's a lot of research you've done.  I enjoyed the classes.

Hi David:

I'd love to get my hands on your plugin file.  Do you want to sell it to me.  Ha..Ha..Ha.. ;)

GREAT work.  I've learned so much from you here and over at STEX.

Thanks again.

Keith

Oh, I just can't h'ep myse'f...

More Shameless Eye Candy!

I was going to do a post on land division in 3RR, loaded up a quad to use for some pics, built a road across a stream, and...and...

...well, here's the rest of the story.

#1
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F1859%2F07011201on4.jpg&hash=859631367f5f282fbd8c619c844aa9849ad9192e)

#2
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg160.imageshack.us%2Fimg160%2F9664%2F07011202lt5.jpg&hash=f0284e221b2f2f6f8dc4e3bd78fcc72a059edf57)

#3
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F1549%2F07011203yq2.jpg&hash=f36c5bc2a9724f91d39ad8d85b99bd4cbf96b1bf)

#4
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F4848%2F07011204dg2.jpg&hash=ce49a9fd9c617f49a71ee6eaf20b617a39bf4d66)

#5
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F2082%2F07011205nq3.jpg&hash=5b9a77c8b1c49e2cc122ae458df39429618bc3cc)

#6
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg216.imageshack.us%2Fimg216%2F5776%2F07011206sa5.jpg&hash=8bc67bab6b5cdf2effec58ca868fc4153562148b)

#7
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg216.imageshack.us%2Fimg216%2F998%2F07011207ld8.jpg&hash=30990df0aa52cc453b66c0fe0e20efcb5638755c)

#8
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F3654%2F07011208dn3.jpg&hash=febadd5c4c41539755db693ced6150d53714ff48)

#9
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F9536%2F07011209mo6.jpg&hash=951c8a33d35e030c79ca997e76b1432e516b947d)

#10
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F4915%2F07011210ll8.jpg&hash=800a16988393c9c308e0ae26e4d2d49b56d9bfb6)

I'll get back on track tomorrow.

G'night- have a great weekend!

The ploppable water to game water transition is fantastic. I didn't even catch it at first glance! I'll be waiting for the land division update!

Hello there, David

I agree with thundercrack, the transition looks very good. Maybe it's because the stream is narrow, however, still nice work on it.
That area looks great in every season of year. I like the subalpine trees near water and rocks.

Keep it up!

I wish 3RR were real...  &cry2

Very great shameless Eye Candy!

You have really nailed the plop-real transition. After the land use post, would it be too bold to ask for a tutorial on how you do it so well (the blending, etc)? I've tried it a couple of times myself, but unless I have a fair amount of water to work with, it is tough to get it to look right. The trees are looking pretty good too.

I love this CJ :D Very lovely work David :thumbsup:

On Rural Land Division: Sections, Townships, Acres and Farms - Part One

This is the first installment of a three part post about the layout of the rural landscape in Three Rivers Region.  I believe that the few minutes spent perusing this information will serve anyone who would like to collaborate in the development of quads in these areas well.

The rural landscape of 3RR is deeply rooted in my experience as a person who spent his boyhood years in the United States midwest.  My maternal grandparents, Dewey and Ethel Steffen, owned a farm located in southern Indiana, and I spent at least several weeks there every summer.  I have fond recollections of the old balloon-frame farmhouse, built in the 1880s, with its attic, porch swing and earthen cellar.  My grandparents tore it down in the late 1960s and, because of their advancing years, built a quite handsome single-story house out of cut sandstone.  As I've noted elsewhere, I watched Neil Armstrong land on the moon [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing) from there on a Sylvania black-and-white TV [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-and-white).  I saw a lightning bolt from a sudden summer storm hit a nearby railroad track about fifty feet from where I was standing and stared in amazement at blue plasma sparks flying along the tops of the rails at an incomprehensible speed setting small fires in the adjacent weeds.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F9160%2Flightningfs5.jpg&hash=65973b52af87cebbee4fff2f9275c6da41176403)

My grandparents died in the 70s while I was serving in the U.S. Army in Germany.  Sadly, "The Farm," as everyone in my family called it, passed into the hands of others some years ago after my elderly uncle and his wife moved back to the city.  I haven't been there in over 30 years, but I can remember being there as a child like it was yesterday.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F6324%2Ffarm01kb3.jpg&hash=a62a1031cd17290e84444d2e35257e278a6f0b38)

Today, I can go there any time I want on Google Earth^TM [linkie] (http://earth.google.com/).  The two corn cribs are still there along with the grassy area out front of them where my brother Tom and I used to play "two-player" baseball.  There's a new silo, but my grandfather's orchard can still be seen between the house and US 231, the paved road on the left.  One of those trees used to produce the biggest, reddest cherries in the world, which practically made themselves into wonderful pies.  I can't tell if the purple martin [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Martin) house is still out in the orchard (I vividly remember having to help my grandfather take the huge thing down and clean it every spring before they returned from the Amazon, or wherever they flew south to over the winter) but if the people who own the place now are any good at all, it will be.

Like the rest of Indiana, and adjacent western Ohio, Illinois, Michigan and distant Minnesota, the area where The Farm was located was laid out in "sections" of a square mile.

n.b.:  I'll note here that, in these posts, I'll depart from my usual manner of presenting land measurement information in both miles-yards-feet and kilometers-meters.  That is because I am referring to units of measurement here that are historical facts in and of themselves.  Here, for my many 3RR friends who do not use a measurement system based on King Henry I's lowermost appendages [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_(unit_of_length)), is a handy web calculator for converting those length measurements into something more comprehensible [linkie] (http://online.unitconverterpro.com/common-conversion/convert-alpha/length.html).  This one does area [linkie] (http://online.unitconverterpro.com/unit-conversion/convert-alpha/area.html).

The Farm is in the circle in the pic below designated as "1."  Circles "2" and "3" show places where the square mile grid is easily visible.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg207.imageshack.us%2Fimg207%2F2224%2Ffarm03co0.jpg&hash=978dcd76101465f43bf5f7051b3782ebdbddc472)

The largish river to the right of The Farm flowing from north to south is the West Fork of the White River [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_River_(Indiana)).  You can see that the terrain to the east of the river is very hilly and wooded.  It was not easy to, and thus not extensively farmed.  Despite this, and the corresponding absence of a uniform road grid in this area, the sections, as will be seen, are still present.

The concept of a "section" of land was developed under the Land Ordinance of 1785 [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Ordinance_of_1785), a law adopted by the United States to provide for the surveying, division and ultimate disposal to the general public of the vast lands of the Northwest Territory, an area consisting of the present-day states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin and part of Minnesota [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territory).

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg69.imageshack.us%2Fimg69%2F9426%2Fnorthwestterritorysh5.jpg&hash=dfb8d3d7c7b7afa71046cc19e9ef06a3dc021ab3)

Three Rivers Region lies at the westernmost extent of these lands, and the one-square mile section was adopted there as well.

Sections are organized into "survey townships" [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_township) under the Public Land Survey System [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) adopted in the United States pursuant to the Land Ordinance of 1785.  These townships are formed from squares of 25 sections (five on a side) or, as is far more often the case, 36 sections (six on a side).  Here is a diagram of a notional 36 section township.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg58.imageshack.us%2Fimg58%2F350%2Ftownshipdiagrameh3.png&hash=fe060d47719c55439e7a63162b157a42f447ab07)

This form of township should not be confused with the "civil township" [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_township), a unit of local government subordinate to counties [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_(United_States)) in some of the United States.  Rather, it is just a consistent grouping of sections that provides for uniform numbering and for specific sections (for example, section 16 for public schools) to be dedicated for public purposes.  The sections of a given township were usually surveyed all at the same time.  The map boundaries between sections were required by the federal government to be deemed "section-line easements."  These easements, usually 50 feet wide, were used for public roads, and resulted in the one-mile square pattern of road development that characterizes the U.S. midwest and plains states, and the great plains provinces of Canada, which were laid out in mile-square sections under a similar scheme, the Dominion Land Survey [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Land_Survey).

Here's a pic from northern Illinois just west of where I grew up that clearly shows this one-mile grid.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg58.imageshack.us%2Fimg58%2F4572%2Ffarm04hf6.jpg&hash=9a38238b81d7deb164f3c187a68915aa4807a521)

The rural areas of Three Rivers Region suitable for agriculture are laid out in this same grid pattern and consequently land development has occurred there pretty much as it did in the nearby states and provinces.  In 3RR, however, the first post-independence government, in 1842, rejected the idea of the 36 section township and instead adopted the 25 section township as more consistent with the region's small size (40 miles by 40 miles).  Thus, Three Rivers Region is divided into 64 survey townships five miles on a side, as shown here.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg68.imageshack.us%2Fimg68%2F8053%2F3rr162townships800ll7.png&hash=75a3a44c80fd25817eaec48b23ca5b2b37b93df2)

Each of these townships has a unique name, usually taken from a major physical feature found within it.  The townships, at five miles on a side, each further contain four quadrants, called quads, two and one-half miles on a side.  This, of course, corresponds with the "large city" found in SC4.  The Three Rivers Region Geological Service ("3RRGS") bases its mapping on the quads, which are named by taking the name of the underlying township (e.g.: "Low Light") and appending the two-letter directional abbreviation (i.e.: NW=northwest, SW=southwest, NE=northeast, and SE=southeast) corresponding to the location of the quadrant in the township.  Thus, the northeast quad in Low Light township is named "Low Light - NE."

As an aside, the region, based on its size, is not divided into counties.  The units of local government within 3RR are the city, town and village.  These are each described in a future post.  The region also has recognized "unincorporated places," which are usually small rural urbanized areas.  These places usually have a post office and their own unique postal code [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_code).

This post is continued in Part Two, which is found here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5983#msg5983), and Part Three, which is found here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg6059#msg6059).


EDITS:  Fact correction, typos, add links to Parts Two and Three.

You know what david ?

That lightning bolt photo will make a great map !

Anyway good job on 3RR, especially on trees !
I watch it closely even if I do not comment that much ( sorry for that )

David,
I just loved the "Shameless Eye Candy"!  You really do a fantastic job with both natural and plop-water streams.  So many others over-do the rocks and stuff along the banks, but what you do seems so natural.  Great info about your plans for the rural landscape of 3RR.  I was raised in North Dakota and if you were to run a steam-roller over any hills on that sat-map it would resemble the Red River Valley.  ;)

Very interesting update. I like the history of how development occured in the midwest. I also didn't realize the three river map was based on a real place.

Giligone, hi!

Quote
I also didn't realize the three river map was based on a real place.

Heh.  I must be doing a good job.  3RR is in fact a landscape of the mind, but it refers to real places, much as does Lake Wobegon [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon).

Wherever it is, I'm glad you found your way there.


David

Edit:  Font troubles.

Quote from: dedgren on January 14, 2007, 11:03:04 AM
Giligone, hi!

Heh.  I must be doing a good job.  3RR is in fact a landscape of the mind, but it refers to real places, much as does Lake Wobegon [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon).

Wherever it is, I'm glad you found your way there.


David

Ahah! Thats slightly embarassing. I guess I read into it a bit too much, in any regards its looks very good.

Hehe, as David develops 3RR and it's history, it makes more and more like a middle earth.
And that is a compliment, to those who don't know "Lord of the Rings".
Unbelievable (well, actually quite believable) detail.

I found your township work very interesting.
So if I understand you correctly, each township is a total of 4 large city tiles?
And each quad is 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) square, so are you still going with mile grids, for the farms areas, etc?

Really nice work, as always
Phil

Well, dedgren, one reason I came to SC4Devotion was to see your CJ. I guess it would be helpful to know that I'm cityhawk from ST; my cityhawk account got screwed up here, so I made a new one. Anyway, I just love the landscaping and tree placement that is happening in this CJ, and the shots with the bridge over the stream and various other ones with lone country roads and railroads look awesome! I have to admit that I don't read your rather wordy posts, with the exception of the history part, but I do quite enjoy the eye candy!

I'm looking forward to more!

n.b.:  It's pretty clear, based on the current average rate, that we'll hit 2,000 page views here at SC4D early tomorrow, the 15th.  I'd like to thank in advance all of the 3RR Regulars- which is anyone who've ever stopped by at least once- for continuing to be such a great bunch of folks to write for.  It only gets better from here.

Update:  (01-15-07 9:00 a.m. AST  GMT-9)  Well, it was 2,005 and counting the first time I checked the 'puter this morning after getting out of bed (today's a federal, state and, most important, court holiday).  Thanks again to all you great folks out there!


On Rural Land Division: Sections, Townships, Acres and Farms - Part Two

This is the second part of a three part post about the layout of the rural landscape in Three Rivers Region.  As I noted in Part One, I believe that the few minutes spent perusing this information will serve anyone who would like to collaborate in the development of 3RR quads.

It is hoped that you will have read Part One, which is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5850#msg5850), before continuing on.  There's information there that this post builds on- don't say I didn't tell you.  Part Three, which completes the post, is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg6059#msg6059).

Just before we stopped last time, we looked at the map of 3RR survey townships.  Here it is again.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg68.imageshack.us%2Fimg68%2F8053%2F3rr162townships800ll7.png&hash=75a3a44c80fd25817eaec48b23ca5b2b37b93df2)

To review, each of the named townships is five miles/eight kilometers wide, and consists of 25 one-square mile sections.  The Three Rivers Region Geological Service ("3RRGS"), which produces topographic and other mapping products for the region, produces four quadrangle maps ("quads") per township.  Each quad is two and one-half miles/four kilometers a side, and corresponds to a large (256 gridsquare by 256 gridsquare) "city" size in SC4.

Let's look at a notional quad superimposed on that area of northern Illinois farm country that we saw in Part One.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F5923%2Ffarm05lz6.jpg&hash=832f788661754d6b70611e71a53f3923bbf1a18b)

All those farms sort of swallow it up, don't they?  And that segues us gracefully into the next part of this post...how big should 3RR's farms be to bear some reasonable relationship to RL farms in similar areas.  To start, we'll return to The Farm in southern Indiana.  Here it is outlined in white.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F6828%2Ffarm02ly4.jpg&hash=5de7ee5b65ae52e414e381bdd4ee3e75780e054a)

You'll have to take my word on the exact dimensions, but I remember well the 133 acre figure, because most of the other kids in the area who's parents owned farms had farms of 160 acres or more.  I suffered, at 10, from a massive case of "acreage envy," because my family's farm was smaller than everyone else's.  Let's first examine the nature of an acre, then we'll return to the reasons for my less-than-golden youth.

An acre [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre) is a unit of land area measurement currently used in the United States and formerly in Canada, the United Kingdom and several other countries prior to the widespread adoption of the metric system, which replaced it with the hectare [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hectare), which is one-square hectometer (no, U.S. readers, I am not making this up!).  A hectare is 10,000 square meters- a square 100 meters on a side.

Back to acres.  An acre was originally established, according to some sources, as the amount of land a man and an ox could plow in one day.  Whatever the basis, the unit is oddly precise-sounding at 43,560 square feet.  That's a square area...uhhh...208.71 feet on a side.  That's walking behind that ox for like- eight miles or so.

...something tells me I would not have cut it as a non-mechanized farmer... 

Let's look at an acre in a familiar context.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg207.imageshack.us%2Fimg207%2F738%2Facresqftjd4.jpg&hash=55f9d7ef5560af09792806fb0409a6764345fb35)

One acre, which has a square footage seemingly more random than a lotto drawing [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery), equals exactly 16 SC4 gridsquares, and a square four gridsquares on a side?

...tell me another one, big boy!

No, really.  It does.  Here's another pic.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg207.imageshack.us%2Fimg207%2F5697%2Facrefeetbyfeetgo7.jpg&hash=3f413ad0a2208a7ed24fbd01e2272d16ee4e39ac)

Comprehension slowly dawning?  Remember all that time I spent droning on and on about scale last fall?  One thing that was a given, because the information comes from Maxis, is that a single gridsquare is 16 meters by 16 meters (scaled, of course).  Well, convert 208.71 feet into meters...

...keys tapping...

...63.614808 meters, right.  Now, divide that by four. A little more that 15.9 meters, right?  Now, trust me on this- a tenth of a meter is a little less than four inches/10 centimeters.  That's, if you're an adult man, about the size of your index finger, or maybe a little longer.  That is how close 16 "game" gridsquares come to equalling an acre.  The length of a finger.  Spooky, just spooky.

So now that we know how big an acre is, how large are the farms that the acres make up?  You've been told The Farm was 133 acres, and that nearby farms were larger.  I mentioned 160 acres, and that in fact was the average U.S. farm acreage in the 1930s and a size that had remained stable for many years before that, according to statistics maintained by the U.S. Department of Agriculture [linkie] (http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/EIB12/EIB12c.pdf?).  Sadly, average acreage has ballooned to over 400 acres, a consequence of agribusiness [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_farming) supplanting the family farm [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_farm).

The reason 160 acres became such a common farm size in the United States was the passage of homestead laws commencing in the 1840s [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Act).  These laws gave persons who cleared, built a house and then lived on designated public lands for a set length of time title to a quarter-section, which (you knew this already, didn't you?) is 160 acres.  Usable agricultural land in the areas subject to homesteading in the U.S. were largely taken up by 1900, but the land boundaries established as a result have largely endured in rural areas over the subsequent century.  The Farm was a homesteaded tract, but predecessors in ownership, for whatever reason, allowed the southermost 26.66 acres to pass from their hands.  If you look once again at the pic, you can see that The Farm would have taken up a perfect quarter-section if it had extended to the section-line road leading off to the left just above the scale.  You can also see patterns in the tillage of the farm to the east (right) indicating a likely boundary at the section-line.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F8117%2Ffarm06za5.jpg&hash=4d56e93c85c4d0b3963b0d5c37d31b643d779a71)

So, while the patterns established by history are not necessarily shackles, looking at them can tell us a lot about why things are the way they are.

In Three Rivers Region, a Homestead Law was passed in 1852.  It granted a quarter-section, 160 acres, to anyone who would mark the corners, cultivate at least 40 acres, built a "permanent" home and live on the land for five years.  The region's government actively surveyed and built a network of dirt roads on a one-mile grid in the areas released for homesteading, so the layout of boundaries is remarkably accurate...

...of course, having God press the [ G ] key every so often was a big help....

We'll complete taking a look at rural agricultural land division in Part Three of this post, which is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg6059#msg6059).


EDITS:  Fact correction, typos, add links to part Three.

First, let me say that the land division update was astounding. Who would have thought I would be compelled to read about farm acreage? And, on top of that, doing English-metric conversions? But it was all really interesting! I never realized that farms were laid out in those grids like that. Anyway, great update and have fun watching the movie!

Hmmm, I calculated an acre to be only 7 squares... intruiging...

Great update! Fantastic names! lot of great information!

Great stuff mate this 3RR is a unbelievable read man i am enjoying it the more times i seem to read it  #?¿?¿?$  %confuso  :)
catch ya

Hey David,

This is looking really good.  I would say I'm surprised that I'm entertained by this but let's face it - I'm rather nerdy and detailed historical information like this interests me.  However, you make a very interesting presentation.  I had no idea the way in which townships were broken up in the farmland of the midwest.  As usual, I am thoroughly amazed at your attention to detail.  It's useful to know the size of an acre in SC4 terms.  I hope that you (and the others who work on 3RR) are able to convey this scale and distribution in a satisfying way. 

And lastly - US 231 runs through my old stomping grounds in Western Kentucky on the Ohio (Owensboro, KY).  It's nice to make connections - your old family farm is just a couple of hours away!  Fortunately, I won't hold the fact that it is in Indiana against you  ;) !!

Looking forward to the rest of the update!!

-Stephen

On Rural Land Division: Sections, Townships, Acres and Farms - Part Three

This is the third and final part of a three part post about the layout of the rural landscape in Three Rivers Region.  As I noted in Part One, I believe that the few minutes spent perusing this information will serve anyone who would like to collaborate in the development of 3RR quads.

It is hoped that you will have read Part One, which is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5850#msg5850) and Part Two, which is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5983#msg5983), before continuing on.  There's information in those previous posts that will help you in understanding what is presented here- at least that was my plan all along.

At the conclusion of Part Two, we saw that, in 1852, Three Rivers Region enacted a Homestead Law, which set in motion the division of the region's rural areas suitable for agricultural development into a one-mile square grid pattern bounded by roads on the section-lines, which created a landscape looking notionally like this.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F7313%2Fsectiongd9.jpg&hash=2715552eaf0e7c19944c953788337be44ab38d27)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F9083%2Fmilebymileio0.jpg&hash=c3ee48170485ae2dc2f0d7825476921484e93d41)

The sections bounded by those roads were then homesteaded into four quarter-section 160 acre tracts one-half mile on a side.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F8751%2Fhalfmilebyhalfmilemh6.jpg&hash=eef63dfeed8d13c54c6f88cbab9996ff5be80831)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg53.imageshack.us%2Fimg53%2F1606%2Fhomesteadfarm01dj5.jpg&hash=5ef6815e586945b847494c733041ae248c09024c)

The choicest farmlands in Three Rivers Region were all homesteaded by about 1880, and the last homestead claim was filed in the upper Cold River Valley in 1899 by one Phineas Frickenstadt, who was but 4'11"/1.5 m in his stocking feet and had 10 beautiful daughters, one of whom...

...but that's another story....

The 1852 Homestead Law was officially rescinded in 1902, having provided in just 50 years for the settlement and development for agricultural purposes of almost 640,000 acres/259,000 hectares of land.  Strict laws governing the conduct of corporate farming, along with a tax code that favors keeping farms in family hands, have kept agriculture in 3RR from going the way that it has in the United States and, to a lesser extent, Canada.  Today, the farming community of the region is thriving and vibrant and, except for an unfortunately high rate of first-cousin intermarriage, largely free of the ills and woes that afflict its counterparts to the north and south.

The median acreage of a Three Rivers Region farm is 160 acres.  The average farm size is a bit smaller, at 149 acres.  As land descends through generations of 3RR farmers, there has been some division of family farms through inheritance into smaller tracts with 40 acres being about the smallest tract passed down.  The Family Farm Preservation provisions of the tax code passed in 3RR in the 1950s with its favorable treatment of family farm trusts largely brought an end to the fragmentation of the region's farmscape.  Over half of the region's farms are now held in these trusts.

For those who looked carefully at the pic of northern Illinois and noticed that, while the one-mile square grid and quarter-section tract boundary subgrid dominated the layout of the land, there still appeared to be many further divisions in the form of different colors and textures visible from the air, let's take another look.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg146.imageshack.us%2Fimg146%2F1930%2Ffieldsoa6.jpg&hash=8b4b089d45970d225f4e0aca905a5cad2fece4b7)

Here, our one-square mile section has been outlined in white.  The four quarter sections are numbered one through four and are divided by dashed lines.  Tract 1 and tract 4 appear to be further divided in half, as noted by additional dashed lines.

It is only possible to guess from an aerial photograph taken at an unknown moment in time how the patterns of tillage and growth on fields on it relate to specific land division.  It would appear, though, that each of tracts 3 and 4, and probably 1, have a farm residence located on it, as seen in the small circles.  There is also a structure in tract 2, though its distance from the road and absence of any driveway to it would hint at either an abandoned dwelling or an outbuilding, such as a barn.  Remember that this picture was taken at a point following about 50 or so years following the beginning of the decline of the family farm in the United States.  My guess is that tracts 1 and 4 are divided in half based on crop rotation practices, which frequently let some land lie fallow while other land is cultivated.  Or, there may be seasonal crops involved, such as the planting of winter wheat or clover, which is then plowed under as an emendation to the soil.  I would futher guess, though, that examination of the land rcords in this area would show that tracts 1 and 4, despite appearing to be divided into 80 acre subtracts, are still part of the same farm.  That guess holds true for the same reasons for what appear to be subtracts in the surrounding area.

We'll wrap up by noting that one mile/1.6 kilometers in 3RR will be represented by 101 gridsquares.  The math is as follows:

     16 meters=52.5 feet
     52.5 feet x 101 = 5,302.5 feet
     5,280 feet = one mile
     5,302.5 feet (as far as I'm concerned, anyway) also = one mile

Remember that this will be inclusive of boundary gridsquares and adjacent roads which, after all, are just on an easement.

Thanks for taking the time in bearing with me through this lengthy post.

um, gosh, more than I ever wanted to know, ::)  it's just that you make it so damn darn interesting :thumbsup:

The whole land division discussion in terms of the farms has me wondering: How are you going to handle scale and land division when it comes to the urban setting (buildings, parks, etc.)? Or, did I just spoil a future tutorial? If so, I apologize.

David posted:

QuoteOur friend Gaston discovers the scrolling text 12-20-06

I think not.  LOL
  Fantastic stuff in the past few posts David.    I am entranced by it.    My math skills suck.   How many grid squares would make up a mile. (linear)   I tried to do the math and failed miserably.   This is really comming along great.   The backround story is truely mesmerizing.    I wish I had a high speed connection so when you get ready to have colaborators, I could be one.    Looking forward to more very soon.

---Gaston

Thank you David for answering my grid square to mile conversion question.    This has been a very kool update indeed.    I always feel like I got my money's worth out of this journal.    But, you didn't pay anything for it.  Yes I know that but you didn't have to say anything about it.    But these people desrve to know that you are cheap.   These people don't care about how cheap I am.   And besides How'd you get over here anyway. I thought I left you over at that other site.   Why don't you go back over there and leave me alone.   Oh no!  I like it here.  Over here I can do this.        [/color][/i][/size]
    Man   Sorry about that.    Thanks for posting more great stuff, David.    We really appreciate it.

OK Here I am!
I'll try to discipline myself and make my Tuesday mornings my "reserved time" for SC4 Devotion visits...
Will I be able to pull it out on a long term basis! Stay tuned to find out!!!  ;)
Allright, I'll go back to my last post, and bring myself up to date and then post again.
So in the meantime I can say that for what I've seen so far, you're still a stickler for details and stats! (With all due respect, of course!  ;) )
OK I'm off to read those pages now....

See you later!

-John

EDITED

I just read on page 7 and I quote: "It is locally contended that poutine, an incomprehensible mixture of fried potatoes, gravy and cheese curds, was invented in Pineshore in 1863 as a way of efficiently feeding hungry railroad crews" END OF QUOTE
I respectfully disagree!
Archeological digs in the Drummondville  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drummondville) area, brought to light fossilized cheese curds as well as petrified fried potatoes, the gravy as long by been transformed into petroleum...
So I think that we should discuss on this so called invention...   ;)

later...

EDITED AGAIN

And here's further proof about the Poutine  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine) origin...

Hehehe....

Nice update!

I've now put up the Table of Contents for the first ten pages of 3RR.  It, among other features, has hotlinks to and a brief description of each of my posts, notes that date the post was made, and lists the members who have commented on each page.  The linkie is in my sig, or you can go there by clicking here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg3025#msg3025).

I've also completed my three part post about rural land division in 3RR.  It starts here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5850#msg5850).

Thanks, as always, for stopping by.


David

**hearing noises of someone chewing on cheese curds...**
**gulping sound**
Ok, just finished reading the last update, lot's of info to absorb! Very informative though and the humor makes it more palatable, if not, it would have been dry as heck!
Waiting to see (and read) more about the background of 3RR, have you a date in mind at which you want to start the actual development?
Had a morning long reunion today, and they hit us with still more work.... At least the overtime will help me pay for my recent debauchery (no! no! not as in "den of iniquity") of expenses on guitar gear!  And on the bright side, we should be returning to a more regular workload by springtime! So we'll be able to enjoy the summer! Ahhhh....

In the meantime, I'm all ears (or more precisely eyes), and I'll try to learn as much as I can from your agricultural tutorials.

See you

P.S. Now about that poutine topic....

@ Darmok: I tried to tell him, but I don't think he wants to listen!  ;) :P

What an absolutly believable backstory (aside from the recently raised question of Poutine...which incidentally, I am amazed to see how much has been written/wiki'ed on the subject); I can only hope that the results of the collaboration are up to the standards set forth herein.

OKAY WAIT ONE MINUTE

     Are you telling me that poutine is for real.     LOL     I can feel my arteries hardening as we speak.      My god is that a food or a Canadian Biological weapon.   LMAO        If you could convince anyone that it was good for them, you could use it to perform genecide.   I really thought this was something made up after too much Eskimo Ice Cream.link (http://www.ankn.uaf.edu/NPE/CulturalAtlases/VirtualMuseum/Writings/Native%20Food/098D22F2-9971-4588-9A87-680B4FE88955.html)      That is some scary stuff.
    Hmmm, it actually sounds pretty tasty.    I wonder if it is on my diet.
ummmmmm...  I'm guessing NOT!   LMAO


---Gaston

err poutine wow, er 3RR even bigger wow the detail and effort you are going to is astounding you are doing the entire community a massive service...

David, I didn't read your three-part series because I don't really have time to, but I did look at the pictures, and I wanted to comment on one thing: The largest city tile is not 1 mile x 1 mile; if each square is 16m x 16m, and the large tile is 256 tiles x 256 tiles, then the largest city tile is roughly 2.55 miles x 2.55 miles. You might have explained a different system that you're using for yourself in that three-part series, but if you didn't, then the correct numbers are aforementioned if you want to use them. Nevermind, but I'm still looking forward to more!

Heh, this looks like a 3RR party of some sort...

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F5296%2F07011601wb1.jpg&hash=b8e67d8f55774f622582be6622dbba49b920a5bd)

Let me know next time- I'll put up decorations.

...the 200th post, btw, is right around the corner...


David

Darn... I'm late again for the party.  :(  :D

Hey David, Very nice updates.
I actually find the math quite interesting and may try to adapt some of your methodology to TT, if you don't mind.

If I'm not mistaken, a large city tile is 4km x 4km, or 4000m x 4000m.
Given that mile roads are 1 mile apart or approx 1620m apart; that means there would only be about 2 or 3 mile roads running vertically and the same running horizontally in a large city tile. I wonder if that will have the appearence of being a little too spread out, although technically correct.

Not sure about it, just wondering if you have any thoughts on the possible sparseness of roads.

Phil

Hey!

Where is my invitation?  :angrymore:  I brushed my teeth this morning and I even used deodorant, since it was Tuesday. 

Ok . . . Next time I'll comb my hair. ?=mad)=

Tee..Hee.. ;)

Love Ya David.

Keith

I've never seen such a technical CJ, and its a good thing! You definitely bring a new perspective to SimCity, you can say you bring it to life! Keep up the good work.

QuoteIf I'm not mistaken, a large city tile is 4km x 4km, or 4000m x 4000m.

Yes, that was another question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time now. What are the dimensions of the large city tiles? Is it 4 km x 4 km? Because, I think I saw somewhere where it was 3 km x 3 km, but I'm probably wrong.

David,

The level of detail and the amount of technical data you provide is amazing!

.....snooze....snore....grumblh.......
Huh, what......
...did anyone say PARTY!
Waking up in a bewildered manner. PARTY.... Toga ! Toga! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_House)

Anyway, great updates David. I love the background story and the RL & SC4 mix. Very entertaining indeed. Keep up the good work David. I will be here watching and reading.

Your ol'friend,
Nik-Nik

Reading through your whole CJ has left me out of words, thus &apls

The Table of Contents is now located in its permanent home here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2802.0).  Enjoy your visit to 3RR!


David

So, busy day yesterday.  By my estimation, 3RR received about 150 page views, which equals its best days over at Simtropolis, a site with over 160,000 members.  You folks definitely put the "devotion" into SC4D- thanks ever so much.

...who'da thunk rural land development could be such a compelling subject?

Speaking of milestones, we reached one at 11:21 (AST  GMT-9) last night, when my friend Justin Dustin (thundercrack83) made the 200th post here!

...drum roll, please...

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F8755%2Fthunderbayvf4.png&hash=e27a44b5a972577b8a8a0307390aeeade4c59e43)

Justin Dustin, you've now joined the growing ranks of folks who are "on the map," so to speak.  I'm especially looking forward to your comments, along with everyone else's, as we move this region forward into being fully-developed.

Let me cherry-pick the last couple of comments by way of answering a few questions-

Justin Dustin asked, in his post on 1-16:

QuoteWhat are the dimensions of the large city tiles? Is it 4 km x 4 km? Because, I think I saw somewhere where it was 3 km x 3 km, but I'm probably wrong.

Last fall, when 3RR was immersed in posts about scale, I created the following chart.  This is the answer, folks, at least as far as I am concerned.  You can see some slight rounding, but hey...I'll let you in on a secret-

...we're playing a game, not doing a land survey.

SIZE		m/km	f/mi
AREA
Grid Square		16m	50ft
Small City		1km	.66mi
Medium City		2km	1.25mi
Quad (Large City)		4km	2.5mi

Yesterday Phil (pvarcoe - Terraforming Teton (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=143.0)) asked:

QuoteGiven that mile roads are 1 mile apart or approx 1620m apart; that means there would only be about 2 or 3 mile roads running vertically and the same running horizontally in a large city tile. I wonder if that will have the appearence of being a little too spread out, although technically correct?

We'll be getting to pics that will let you folks reach a conclusion in a bit.  The short answer is, as far as I'm concerned, no- not at all.  Here's a Quad screenie of what Phil is describing.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F7811%2F07011701wa6.jpg&hash=67ae17e4c59d8a895b19bb9a11112e6e12fc9c65)

Ignore the grey outline of the quad except for on the right, which is in fact a road (well, technically, as far as the game is concerned, it's a street, as I have placed no roads in this quad).  There are three east-west roads (north is up) one mile apart and three north-south roads.  The quads to the north and south and east and west, if they are similarly rural-agricultural, will have two roads on each axis.

This ignores, however, placement of many other things.  Later arriving, higher volume roads, for one.  Towns and cities.  Rail lines.  Power poles.  Dumps.

...yeah, in 3RR they're still called dumps- none of them foo-foo "landfills" for us true sons and daughters of the Great White North!

So, you'll see, and you can decide.

Craig (craiggles)...heh!  I know exactly how you feel- been there, done that.  Thanks for hanging.

I've got to go to work.  I'll go back to the most recent comment to close, though.

This morning, kwakelaar said:

QuoteReading through your whole CJ has left me out of words

...probably 'cos I used all of them!

Have a great day, folks.  Thanks for being 3RR Regulars!


David

another great informative post however how are you going to deal with offset nature of the chunks outside your grid at the edges of this tile and ensure the grid is maintained over a larger area...


EDIT- oh and another thing how do you get region census to work with such a large region, my region is similiar in size, if not slighty bigger than our and my census just crashes every time.... i wondered if you have experienced anything similiar...

If I recall correctly, the railroad made its way west by generous government land grants (lay 1 mile of track and get 10 sq. miles of land on either side check it out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Railway_Act)). Given this, I was wondering if there would be any effect cause by railroads through the region (getting ahead a bit perhaps, but what can I say, I like trains)? I am assuming based of my research (yeah... research...right) that since it was public use land, it was still available under the homesteading act, but I would be curious to know your take on it since this act was signed 10 years after the homestead act.

Quote from: threestooges on January 17, 2007, 10:31:58 AM
If I recall correctly, the railroad made its way west by generous government land grants (lay 1 mile of track and get 10 sq. miles of land on either side check it out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Railway_Act)). Given this, I was wondering if there would be any effect cause by railroads through the region (getting ahead a bit perhaps, but what can I say, I like trains)? I am assuming based of my research (yeah... research...right) that since it was public use land, it was still available under the homesteading act, but I would be curious to know your take on it since this act was signed 10 years after the homestead act.

   That David deffinately raises an interesting question.   Doesn't it?   Hmmmmmmm.


---Gaston

Thunder Bay! And I didn't even realize that I was the 200th reply! Thank you very much, this is such an honor. And, thank you for answering my question about the scale of the tiles.

Also, I should point out that my name is "Dustin," not "Justin." Very common mistake, but at least you didn't call me "Joanne" like my grandmother did once...

Very nice, David. And you've pretty much given us food for thought regarding Maxis's selection of the 16m x 16m tile format.

QuoteIf I'm not mistaken, a large city tile is 4km x 4km, or 4000m x 4000m.

Nope. They're 4096m x 4096m. Simple reason: if it was 4000m x 4000m, there'd be a few tiles left over. 6 tiles, to be exact. And if this was done with 2000m x 2000m - 3 tiles. 1000x1000m - 1.5 tiles. Doesn't quite work, does it?

However, if it was 4096 x 4096 - there'd be 256 tiles. 2048 x 2048 - 128 tiles. 1024 x 1024 - 64 tiles. This actually brings me to greyscale mapping, which I won't go into detail here, as it's not necessary.

Also, the 16x16m tile is easiest to work with from a coding perspective, because it is a base 2 number (2^4 to be exact), and base-2 is known as binary. Binary-wise, it's basically (in 8 digits) 00010000.

Unfortunately, this means David's chart is slightly off... The modifications I have made are in bold.

Quote from: dedgren on January 17, 2007, 09:27:23 AM

SIZE		m/km	f/mi
AREA
Grid Square		16m	0.01 mile (50ft?)
Small City		1.024km	.64mi
Medium City		2.048km	1.28mi
Quad (Large City)		4.096km	2.56mi

From that, we can ascertain that (since 1.6km = 1mi, 0.625mi = 1km) that all these numbers are base-2. ;) So, looking at that table, we can see exactly why Maxis used 16x16: because it can easily be used in either kilometres or miles. 5000ft to one mile, and 16m = 0.01mi/50ft, correct?

And from this, 1 acre is equal to four tiles (which is what you said)... or 64m. By this we can see that one acre has 0.04mi to a side.

I hope I haven't stuffed up your calculations. :P

But hey, I do love how you try to apply real life measurement to your SC4 region - and believe it or not, it's somewhat easier than people make it to be (considering how Maxis's measurements fit in so well with both km and mi).

Quote
This ignores, however, placement of many other things.  Later arriving, higher volume roads, for one.  Towns and cities.  Rail lines.  Power poles.  Dumps.

Didn't the planning authorities throw out the mile-by-mile concept before highways, avenues, etc, arrived (1905, as you said before)? I dunno, maybe you could disregard that concept in this case?

OhmaGod, Justin Dustin...

...checking, checking...yeah, got it right...'hem...

...I am so unbelievably sorry.  I have corrected the erroneous info on the offending post and fired...

...hey, wait a minute, you can't do that...

...those responsible.

Obviously Thunder Bay will have to play some huge role in 3RR's subsequent history.  I owe you one, man!


David

p.s.:  Shadow, I see you lurking- I'll deal with your impertinent post...

Quote...Darth Vader:  "I've been waiting for you Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete - When I left you, I was but a learner. Now, I am the master"...

...tomorrow (after I think up a proper response to your completely correct, but inconvenient, calculations).  DE

QuoteOhmaGod, Justin Dustin...

...checking, checking...yeah, got it right...'hem...

...I am so unbelievably sorry.  I have corrected the erroneous info on the offending post and fired...

...hey, wait a minute, you can't do that...

...those responsible.

Obviously Thunder Bay will have to play some huge role in 3RR's subsequent history.  I owe you one, man!


David

Not to worry. Like I said, it happens all the time...

In my excitement over Thunder Bay, I didn't get a chance to comment on your latest post, particularly about whether or not the roads would look too spread out, despite being technically correct, as asked by pvarcoe. In my opinion, I think in the city view like you've shown, it may look "wrong" to some because all the 1 mile x 1 mile grids aren't aligning perfectly within the city tile. However, if I'm following what's going to happen correctly, in the region view, that won't be a problem because the grids cut off will be continued and the grid would turn out much more uniform. But then again, I may be completely wrong.

Anyway...I'll be looking forward to your next update.

Graet updates David!!!
Your precision and devotion in your calculations remembers me the middle ages Monks with their books :D

Keep up the good work!!!!!

G'day David how's things man. Well i had to jump in and now say im a little  :-\ after reading Shadows comment i got lost and thought bugger it give or take 100 metres who cares  :D  ;D
Great stuff cant wait for Thunder bay
catch ya

Heheh, David, you don't have to use these measurements. :P Just keep on using those ones you made, if it's easier for you. I just put it out there. I'm not making you use these measurements and everything. :P

I just felt like replying to that little comment, lol.

And if I've confused people with that comment, don't worry too much. I can be like that sometimes. :P

Now that we have the scale right (or almost right to 4,096 x 4,096 m) and we all agree that Size matters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Size_Matters), I am just wondering how the actual scale of the buildings fit in this whole picture. Maybe the buildings should then also increase by a certain factor?
I am just afraid that you create huge maps with tiny villages in the game, or am I paranoid /&HiPP/% (I still think this smiley looks like Ozzy).

Nik-Nik

Hello Again.  I posted this a few days ago.

Quoten.b.:  It's pretty clear, based on the current average rate, that we'll hit 2,000 page views here at SC4D early tomorrow, the 15th.  I'd like to thank in advance all of the 3RR Regulars- which is anyone who've ever stopped by at least once- for continuing to be such a great bunch of folks to write for.  It only gets better from here.

Update:  (01-15-07 9:00 a.m. AST  GMT-9)  Well, it was 2,005 and counting the first time I checked the 'puter this morning after getting out of bed (today's a federal, state and, most important, court holiday).  Thanks again to all you great folks out there!

Well, we're three days and about 400 page views past that now.  I noted yesterday that I thought there had been 150 views during the preceding day, and that this rate equalled that achieved during 3RR's best days over at ST.  You folks just don't know how gratifying I find your willingness to stop by here.  It's like I get to play SC4 with one hundred of my closest friends almost every day.

I'll repeat here, in short form, my plea to all those who lurk [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=74819&STARTPAGE=22#889290) at 3RR.  You are absolutely welcome to do so, if that be your style.  But consider the following, which I repeat, with an appropriate change, from my previous post on the subject

• I'm sure some of you are visitors to SC4 Devotion and thus can't post, as only members can.  Now, I just can't even guess why anyone would pass up the ability to formally join this great community at the bargain price of zip (nada, zilch, etc.).  You'd be warmly welcomed, treated like guests, fussed over, all that stuff.  If this post encourages even one of you to join us in our shared SC4 experience, I'll be really pleased.  If you do that and then post and let me know that on 3RR, I'll be really, really jazzed about it.

• If you are a member and are just lurking; hey, step out into the light.  At least this once.  Let me know who you are so that I can add you to that select group of folks who have unburdened their thoughts at some point here at 3RR.  You aren't signing up for anything- I won't ask that you post again and again (post, POST until you GET IT RIGHT!  Yes, you, with the guilty look.  Heh!).  The one thing I would ask that you is take just a minute, if you would, and let me know what I could do to make 3RR whatever best maintains your interest.

Again, lurk if you will.  Just remember, though, that it was only with the support and encouragement in the comments that were made that 3RR grew from this

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F4108%2F3rroldgc2.jpg&hash=36308b05d907d1107c017472bd5a9a49a55def90)

into this

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F848%2F3rrnewhb4.jpg&hash=cc37c9b441d271342aecdb57b87faa8b78fe9e04)

and that we were able to come up with things like this

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F2706%2Fsilvertopoyv7.jpg&hash=c6f5401299f2f7c1aedc214ec1b56b39124e0c79)

and this.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F6667%2Fprattislanduf8.png&hash=278afeb6d5792f6e37cebf334ccdb174e5d7bee7)

I'd hope that you would all comment, as well, in the other great Mayor's Diaries that have been started here at SC4D.  As of today, they are

AntigOne (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=217.0), by Badsim
Avolon (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=222.0), by petercintn
Elephant Bay (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=108.0), by tkirch
Finishing Peraires (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=31.0), by jeronij
Gotham City: The Regular Edition (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=201.0), by derek_pearce
Levante (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=203.0), by nedalezz
Grand Canyon (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=78.0), by jeronij
Metasmurf's showcase (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=84.0), by metasmurf
Rise of Kooriopolis - UN of Gondwanaland (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=208.0), by KooriSim123
Socialist State of Rodina (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=196.0), by sepsis
Terraforming Teton (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=143.0), by pvarcoe

In fact, even if you don't comment here at 3RR, you should take the time to comment in any or all of the above.  They are each well worth the time spent in a visit, and every one of the authors both needs and appreciates your feedback and constructive criticism.

As a final note, speaking of comments- I'll be responding to the great ones that accumulated overnight (in Alaska, anyway) later in the day today.

Take care.


David

EDIT: Grammar and flow, errors, that sort of stuff.

David, although I'm more a lurker than a poster, I thought I'd give yours a go.  You've some interesting concepts developing.  Nice work!  In reference to building size and therefore lot size, Maxis wasn't too far off (imho), in their choice of 1x2 for, low density, single family.  At least in my part of the woods, lots have a 50 foot (15.24m) minimum width at the building line, with an 80 foot (24.38m) minimum length and a 15 foot minimum setback.  In a typical, ant hill, subdivision, this would be almost exact, i.e., minimal front and rear yards, pack em in as tight as possible.  If you factor in a 1500 sq. ft. house, with attached garage, measuring 50 x 50 feet, the house would fit believably on two tiles and be near accurate in "real world" scale.  Below is an example of the typical ranch house I'm referring to.  It measures 50 x 50 feet (including the garage); 20 feet to the ridge line and a pitch of 7:12.  This type of house can be seen in, almost, every region of the U.S.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brakebayou.us%2Fimages%2Ftypical_ranchhouse.jpg&hash=6c6561cacc48d373abace924352a947334b21c6c)

David,

I learn so much when I read your posts, and I hope you knopw how much you encourage us in our SimCity efforts.  I only wish I could draw the maps you do.  Your map with the yellow background, how you do that I have no clue.

The depth you have gone into on the division has made for interesting reading.  We can get a clear picture of where you come from as we read Three Rivers.

David - Yes I lurk a lot in your place! I do love it and learn a lot from your additional information.  :thumbsup:

David, you ask all of us lurkers to post, that's difficult to do sometimes (aside from you using all the words again!), because sometimes your depth of information just leaves me, for one, stunned!   &Thk/(  and while I'm as perfectly capable of inanities as the next person, I feel your hard work deserves at the very least a thoughtful response.  So, while I might not post in every update, be sure that I'm out here lurking (and being awed by your beautiful region and all the information!) :thumbsup:

Wow, it's only when you put the smaller picture of 3RR next to the 3RR 16² version that I fully realized the evolution of the region. If someone were to tell me that they were taking a smaller region and making it on not only a large scale, but the largest possible scale, I would have predicted the quality to suffer. But not you! It's 16² times better!

Whoa... It's amazing how much better the new 3RR is! I can't wait to see what you'll teach us next!  :D

Okay David,
     
      And it is a pleasure to post comments in what is (IMHO) the greatest CJ oops  MD ever created.    And I will still wander around the others because they are fantastic as well.    You know me by now,  I love this place!!!


---Gaston

David, I have commented over at ST but never here. Showing 3RR is it was and what it is now is awesome! The area is gorgeous!! So lush and green and with all the beautiful water. I so want to live there! You are truly a master at terraforming.  &apls

Haha, a rush of posts. Great work! Really awesome. I meant to post earlier... but I was at work. Seeing that progression from the original to now is really cool. I didn't know there were previous versions of 3RR. Looking forward to the next update!!

Hi David:

I saw Pratt Island again and it brought back memories of how it looked over at STEX.  Sooo I trotted  %BUd% over there on page 15 and looked at it again.   Still looks GREAT! Especially the transparent rocks in the water.

Your the greatest   :thumbsup:

Keith

Some old mapping & contour lines :)
sweet as always

Wow.  I guess I need to explain myself here.  I had intended to do a post this evening about points raised by several of you in the last little bit, and couldn't believe when I sat down at the 'puter after dinner the number of new posts since this morning.  I need to take it all in, so instead of posting I spent my time this evening visiting the other great MDs here and just sort of sitting back and enjoying all the fine work on display there.  I left some comments...

...kind of hard to post about lurkers here and then go and lurk elsewhere...

...and took the time to look at some other corners of this great site I haven't checked out yet.  I thus will plan a mega-post for tomorrow evening.  Thanks so much for everything that's been said here today.  I promise to do it justice tomorrow night.

Later.


David

Lurking is one of my favourite hobbies, but I'm trying to quit. ::)

to lurk or not to lurk. That's the question.

Sometimes RL just leaves me too little time to respond. Sometimes I have nothing special to respond, than just wow what great.
Anyway, nice to see that old region view, compared with the new one. Wow impressive.
Why do you get different colours (UK english you know) at some of the squares in the regionview?

Nik-Nik

Thanks, David, for welcoming me to these forums. I was quite surprised when I logged in this morning, and saw that I had a private message from you. In the 16 months I've been a member at Simtropolis, I only received one private message from anyone, and within two days of signing up here I have one from one of the "Heavyweights" of CJ/MD!

Unfortunately, I am not caught up 100% in 3RR. I still need to read quite a bit, but I have been making use of your ploppable water techniques. I just wanted to take time to drop by and say hi!

Rheal

As I have been absorbing this great diary, I also was wondering at the beginning if this was a 'real' place.  I can now say it's as real as any 'based on a true story' movie I have seen.  I hope to see 3RR spring into life soon.  I'm really enjoying this, David.

Quote from: emilin on January 19, 2007, 12:50:24 AM
Lurking is one of my favourite hobbies, but I'm trying to quit. ::)

Admitting you have a problem is the first step!  :D

Looking forward to the big huge update!

Hey David,

Things have absolutely blown up here at 3RR over the past couple days.  It looks like there was an entirely new page of posts in roughly one day!  Well sir...it is a tribute to the great thing going on here.  I really enjoyed the rest of the Rural Land Division post - great work.  Your before and after post of the region itself certainly took me back to the beginning as well (3 months ago for me - oh, so long ago!).  I remember saving the contoured grayscale images and trying to put them together in Photoshop to have my own 3RR.  Thank goodness the discussion of scale came along and then the subsequent region posts onto the STEX.  Though I'm not actually playing in them, they are part of a region building project that is rather unique - more about that in a few months perhaps.

Anyhow, as usual, keep it comin'!

-Stephen

P.S. - Good luck transferring the older data from ST to wherever you're taking it.  That sounds daunting!

Awesome update! Im in complete agreement with the lurkers comment  &apls.

As usual, your updates leave most of us awe-struck and anxiously awaiting the next one. This one was no different. Great job.

Hi David ,

I must admit that I didn't read eveything ....google translation is absolutely awful ...but the higher presentation quality of your work don't leave any doubt ... and oppositely to your statement on my own thread , I can't wait to see more of your talent . ;D
Wonderful region (my map really sucks ) & scenes so far ... :thumbsup:

Cedric.

Alright, here I go...

          I have been logged in for a grand total of 14 minutes here at this website and this is the first comment I make. I have followed 3RR since it first started over at ST and have lurked through it until today. I was looking through this site's forums and I found 3RR so I read it all the way up until your post about lurking and I decided to register here at SC4Devotion and try to break my habit even if that means posting the "good job looking forward to your next update" post. So with that out of the way, I want to tell you how much I enjoy reading 3RR and its tutorials and technical secrets. I have learned a lot and hope to learn more. Keep it up, David, your doing an amazing job.

-Adam

A RL event sort of has me on the run the last 24 hours or so...I'm on track to get that promised post up later today, though.

In the meantime, I'll leave one of my winter friends to keep you company.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg134.imageshack.us%2Fimg134%2F6135%2Falaskanchickadee0fr.jpg&hash=848c9ed3af048273cd26f1138dfb7621d82cc56d)

We have 50 or 60 of these in the lilacs and trees around the porch some mornings.

Later.


David

Nice photo! What kinda camera do you have?

Hello David,

I am truly amazed at the realism and beauty of what you have created so far. Have you thought of creating some "National Parks" to preserve some of the natural areas of Three Rivers before they are developed.

I love simcity and astounded by what creative people can do with it.

Keep up the great work...

Steve

The best thing about 3RR is the cleverness used while posting. Some CJ/MD entries have more personal replies, but we must understand that they don't generate the traffic that this one does.

There is a wide variety of posting styles, here, not just update/reply. I've now learned a thing or two (even more so) about the scaling of SC4 with regards to tiles, and city sizes, etc. I can get a better picture in my mind as to how something should look now, especially after reading the wide array of information posted.

I generally lurk here... I can't bring myself to generalize comments in my posts (such as: "Great job.") over and over again. Nevertheless, simply know that I am in fact, a fan of this. I don't see it ending anytime soon, and I see that you are personally responsible for adding quite a few members to this site.

Incredible!

*steps out of the shadows*

I've just finished reading your... thesis on rural division.  Very, very interesting.  Makes a whole lot more sense in this context than it ever did when we studied it in US History.  (This may be due to Mr. Wonneberger not being the most in-tune teacher...)

Lots of useful info there. (Finally, I know how big an acre is!)

Can't wait for more.

*slinks away*

-ACE

Hi David-

I finally made it over here to SC4D . . . nice site!  Glad to see 3RR alive and kicking over here, and I'm still continually amazed by it.  The amount of detail you're going into is great.  Being somewhat of a realism freak, I can definitely appreciate it. ;)

Looking forward to seeing where you go with 3RR here.

-Tarkus

lurk mode off
Wow, my brain is stuffed full of math and acres and trees - note to self:  read 3RR on a daily basis otherwise you'll go into information overload.  Oodles and oodles of good great stuff here!  My "fantastic work, David" pales in comparison to your regulars' comments but please know it's always a treat to read the updates.  -later.
lurk mode on

Well, I managed to injure my eye.  Really stupid way of doing it, too.  Taking out my right contact Friday night, I did the usual "poke, rub and pinch" routine.  Let's just say, without going into detail, that it went horribly wrong.  I thought I'd just irritated my eye pretty bad until mid-day Saturday, when the feeling that someone had stuck a sharp stick in it just wouldn't go away.

About a day and a half later, the miracle of modern medicine has me pretty much restored to normal, although I spent most of the last 24 hours or so in enforced darkness.  I've worn contacts for 25 years or so...

...first time I've ever done that.
______________________

So, instead of the planned continued discussion that's been so rudely interrupted, let me just post, without a whole lot of explanation, some pics I've taken as I've fine-tuned the mix of seasonal trees on the large "convenience" lots I've created for ease of plopping.  I'll hold the post I had been writing responding to the many great recent comments in abeyance a bit longer.  The pics that follow raise several issues I intend to deal with at greater length in future posts- I'll note them briefly as we go whizzing by.

Without further delay-

#1
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A little town- population 500 or so.  Nothing special- all Maxis buildings as I have put nothing other than BSC, BLS and CSX farm stuff, a bunch of tree stuff, the NAM and a few mods and specialty items into the plugins folder yet.  I really dislike the small lot, low-density "game" commercial buildings and lots.  The farm at the SW corner is on a 5x6 or so zone, and grows beans.  The rest of the field is uroncha's ploppable SG seasonal pole bean 1x1 lots.  The field to the NW corner is also made up from one of uroncha's ploppable lots, this time SG seasonal wheat.  More about farm fields- much more- in a few posts.

#2
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Early fall.  Compare the fields with the previous pic- only the calendar would tell you that it's harvest time.

#3
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Just about high fall.  What was SimGoober (don't get me wrong, I worship the ground he walks on) thinking of when he did that pole bean lot?  I mean, what's so seasonal about random parts of the field turning reddish-brown?  All the pole vines I ever grew turned brilliant yellow and then lost their leaves by late summer.  I know this isn't SimLegumeFarming, but I think this needs another look.  The wheat, on the other hand...well, heh- it must be winter wheat.

#4
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Everything's turned, now.  Once you've seen a full quad of seasonal trees properly placed, it's mighty hard to go back.

#5
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Early "game" November.  Pole beans are completely mutated turned.  Most of the yellow-leaved trees are bare.  That wheat's hangin', though.

#6
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December before the first snow.  Leaves are all down (except for some tree from some other planet that Maxis plants on its lots).

That really must be winter wheat!

And look at those pole beans- why, we're going to have a bumper second crop round about February or so.

#7
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Yup.  End of February, lookin' good for beans.  Lookin' real good right behind the water tank- must be over the septic system or something...

#8
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Shifting gears a bit- there's nothing like the fresh, clean aroma (i.e.: none) of a dump in mid-winter.  Darn seagulls spoiled my pic by eatin' all the garbage.

No, c'mon- tell the truth.

Okay, okay.  Actually it was the two waste-to-energy plants I plopped just off the pic to the east when things got way out of hand at "cheetah" speed while I wasn't looking.  Man, there was SimTrash everywhere for a bit.  Took care of it right quick, those plants did.  Emptied the dump, though, too.

Ever wonder why Maxis didn't take the 37 seconds needed to create a decent "empty landfill" texture?

Cycledogg must buy his grass/groundcover from the same Feed & Seed SimGoober gets that wheat.

#9
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Spring at the dump.  Those seagulls must know something we don't.

#10
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Summer.

Don't they ever land?

#11
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I've been amping up the red and orange fall colors, but still am beholden to a strong yellow-leaves component.  That's north-central U.S/Canada fall, in my book.

#12
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Down to Wildcat Creek.  I'm working on some other "super-detail" ploppable stuff, and didn't spend any time doing this, but I'm pretty happy with the way this sort of scene comes out with a little effort.

#13
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Further downstream.  I'm wondering about the ability to submerge animated props...

I've taken to sticking "dead" (leafless) trees in here and there.  I like the look, and it's one more item of "superdetailing" furniture in the tool kit.

Now that's mixing a metaphor!

#14
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A cold fall day along the Wildcat.

#15
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I'd redo the pile of plop rocks here at the lower left- otherwise this is fine.

#16
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Yep, those have to go.

#17
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So, back to the fields from a little further out.  Late spring, and that wheat's still going strong.  Those are SG corn fields next to the wheat and at the top of the pic- all uroncha ploppable.  A field of "zoned" hay is off to the left.  Like I said, I plan to unload my thoughts about fields in an upcoming post.  I presume you can tell I'm not real jazzed about what I feel I have to work with.

Oh, the high-tension towers (at least that's what we called them in the midwest- elsewhere they may be termed power pylons or the like).  Those are fukuda's.  I like them much better than the "game's" towers.

I have never seen a red-and-white pattern high-tension tower, anywhere.  Not even after those spoiled enchiladas I ate once.

fukuda, though, if you're reading this...

First, hi!  Great job on those bridges- they are to die for.  Plan on seeing them somewhere in 3RR, prominently placed.  That said:

   1.  High-tension towers are generally not found on a concrete slab.  I haven't run them through the LE yet, but if that's just a texture and could be made invisible...you could certainly lose the slabs and just plop them letting whatever is underneath show through.  Nobody will miss this unecessary detail.

   2.  If a gridsquare = 16 meters/50 feet and, at viewing level "3" on my computer is displayed about 32 pixels across, this means that the finest possible detail at that level, i.e.: something that can be represented by one pixel, is one-half a meter, or about 20 inches across.  I have it on good information that the wires on high-tension towers, depending on the voltage carried, are 2-1/2 to 5 cm/one to two inches in diameter.  They are, for all intents and purposes, invisible in this game at any view level.  And, they are not black, being metal that is, well...

...metal-colored.

I'd love to see the towers and not the wires.  I know you'd have to think up some way to visually indicate connection, or perhaps we could just finesse that and say any tower within 10 gridsquares of another is wired to same.

More on electric towers and poles later.

#18
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Coming on high summer and that wheat's starting to look like one of those humungous bar codes they use now.  Ditto the pole bean field toward the bottom of the pic.  Wha were the otherwise brilliant folks who modeled this stuff thinking this would simulate?

#19
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...but here it comes roaring back!  And look at them pole beans!  Break out the grist mill and salt pork, my darling- it's bread and beans for dinner tonight!

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Now that's what I call efficient farming.  It doesn't look like they harvested that corn so much as graded it dead level.

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December, again, and...

...looky that, Elmer!  I had no I-deer corn would grow so nice at 3 below...

So, I have to leave you there.  I have a major brief-writing day tomorrow, so I need my beauty sleep...

...lot of good that'll do...

Anyway, enjoy!

Later.

It only takes a few minutes to set these up once you've created some.  I'm by no means finished- I plan to put in some "ground clutter" (stumps, maybe some spring and summer shrubs, a few (very few, as they get overused easily) rocks and boulders in finalizing these lots up.  If there's any interest, I'd be happy to do a tutorial.

Personally, I would LOVE to learn how to make my own lots of trees...is there any chance you could do a tutorial on how to make these trees? Also, where do you get these customizable trees?

Kalanc69   &hlp  "$Deal"$[/b]/move][/move]

First, let me extend my condolences about your eye problems. As a contact lens wearer myself, I know it can be rather painful when something goes wrong. When you said that you had to spend 24 hours in darkness, it reminded me of that episode of M*A*S*H when Hawkeye was blinded and had to wear patches on his eyes...

Anyway, onto the latest update!

I really like the pictures where you show the seasonal differences in the trees. Personally, my favorite is still the fall shots (#11 in particular), when all the different colors come out. As a Pennsylvanian, it reminds me of...well, Pennsylvania.

QuoteDown to Wildcat Creek.  I'm working on some other "super-detail" ploppable stuff, and didn't spend any time doing this, but I'm pretty happy with the way this sort of scene comes out with a little effort.

If that's little effort, I can only imagine what actual effort is going to look like!

Take care, and I hope your eye is doing better.

Very nice work, David. Seagulls, of course, are known for hanging around... maybe there's just some invisible trash hanging around there?

As for the power lines, unfortunately, the concrete bases cannot be removed - the model is controlled by the .exe itself, and well, Maxis really did drop the ball on this one. It'd just look weird if the base was set to invisible, because you'd have the structure hovering in mid air.

I agree, it'd have looked a lot better without that concrete base. You can always try PSPing it out, though.

Wonderful development! Great town and farms! Fantastic river!

I love how you use Cycledogg Trees. It's very nice.

Hi David,

And yes I am stalking following your MD, just like I did over at ST.  Just not one to post the "great job", "nice work"......etc every other time I come to read the updates.  I just lurk around and soak in all the information you put out there. 

Though I guess I should comment on how well this is looking and how far it has come from the beginning.  I do enjoy reading all the humor information, I have learned tons.  I am sure I have tons more to learn.  I do appreciate all the time you put into this.

I would like to say that your seasonal trees have come along way from the first set you did, looks great, very evenly spread out now.  I will continue to follow along and step out of lurking every once in a while.

Thanks for a great MD.  $%Grinno$%

 "$Deal"$ " it says here your gonna get more trixies this year....

Hi David, I use to wear contacts so can empathize with your problem (at least you didn't scratch your eye putting makeup on like I did once! :'( ), I've since had Laser surgery and all I can say is "I wish I'd done it sooner!' 
Anyway on to TRR, sitting here in the Sacramento Valley of norther California we don't get all the seasonal changes that happen further north, but we do get the foliage changes (although not on the same scale) so I really appreciate your use of the seasonal trees.  Your little creeks make me want to take up painting again.  (*make note to myself, look for paint supplies one day soon*) ::)  I'm sorry, I just had to laugh at your 'complaint' about the farms, you're trying so hard to make TRR as life like as possible when something as silly as pole beans trip you up! ???

Afternoon / Morning David,
       I can understand what you mean about the farm fields.    I have to say I wish they were better .     At the same time I am truely impressed with the effort that the folks that made them have put in to them.     It is very difficult for me to have any kind of complaint about any lot when I have no clue how to even start creating something like that.   ???   I will continue to be thankful for all the great stuff people are willing to spend time making.   That of course doesn't stop me from asking questions or making suggestions.     ;)    Thanks for posting some great pics.


---Gaston

Hi David-

Wow that's quite the update . . . and the amount of detail about the farm fields.  I had kind of wondered about those harvesting cycles myself, but I concur with Gaston, too, that it was at least nice for someone to create some better looking ones.  Heck, the Maxis ones don't even harvest at all. 

Of course, I am in the modding end of things as well, and from what I can tell, there's probably some way to change the time cycle on those, likely in the Reader.  I'm actually planning undertaking an experiment in the near future with some of the Transit Modding that I'm doing, which will probably involve messing around with those time cycle things, so I may know some more on that end soon.  And if the experiment is successful, there may be a rather nifty addition to the RHW mod as well. ;)

Looking forward to more 3RR as always.

Sorry to hear about your eye as well--hope everything is going well on that end. 

-Tarkus

Man, I always love reading your updates, you always present the information you gathered in a funny, non-boring way. I really liked the joke about the striped poles and the spoiled enchiladas  :D.

Anyway, great update and I have a question for you. Do you plop those seasonal trees one by one or do they have some kinda brush that you use?

David,
auch! You've been surprised by the infamous red-eye monster. Guess you looked more or less like this?

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Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, this is one of the reasons that I do no longer wear those lenses.

Interesting update again David. Did you know that besides great farm stuff SG made also Goober_gen industry lots (of course you do). Is there a connection between the mysterious winter wheat, the pole beans and the genetic modifications at Goober_Gen????  ;D

Love those seagulls. After watching "Finding Nemo" my view on seagulls will never be the same again. I guess after sheep they must be the stupidest animals around, well they were in the previous mentioned movie.
Sorry about that, but having 3 young children means you realy, REALY get to know Pixar's movies.

I love that stream you made. That curve just after the bridge looks so very natural. WOW!

Finally about Fukuda's Power lines. I live in the Netherlands and we regularily have rivers running out of their....what's that word....course? Well, when too much water goes through the river the water level rises (there has to be an english word for that). In the fine mazed system of power lines there are always some poles near a river. So we build these on big concrete slabs sometimes 3 or 4 meters high. Others are just on big slabs or on 4 slabs of concrete.
Some other great power lines are:
SFBT Rural Power Lines By Spocky (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13897)
and
HV Transmission LineSubstation (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14679) by Jestarr.
The later one is brilliant in fields:

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Unfortunatelly it does not distribute power like Fukuda's does. It's mere eye Candy.

Have fun.

Nik-Nik

Hi David,
This is one of the most realistic setup you've made so far...!
The small pumping station not to far from the stream...
The only thing I like less is the dump near the river BUT... unfortunately I've seen such thing in RL!!! so... good points for realism but personally I would have liked it in a secluded place far from the water.
The power lines....
I don't mind the concrete slabs, in my "enduro" days (trail bikes) one of our favorite ride was to follow the power line through the forested area, and each pylon was placed on a concrete slab... so to me it looks OK, I agree though that they could have made it a little bit less obvious...
Just love the ambiance of this small community!
See you!

John

Hey David,

That last group of pictures looks great!  I like the fields, trees, and creek of course but was equally impressed with the layout of you rural little town.  I've done a some research of my own over at GoogleMaps to see exactly what a small midwest farm town might look like streetwise and you have nailed it! 

Looking forward to the next update!  Hope your eye is on the mend....

-Stephen

Hi David.
Excellent update and I hope your eye issues are behind you.

Super detailing on your stream. I realize you mention it didn't take a ton of time to create it, but...
Most of us would (will) spend a gastly amount of time to approach anything like what you've done.

I concur with your comments about fields. The fields here in Manitoba don't quite look the same as these either, but you make do what what you have. Never the less, I love the assortment of fields that are available to us.

I have a question about the shots of your village. Unless it is just the zoom level you are at in your shots, do your streets (or roads or whatever those grey transportation things are, I always get them mixed up), not have any sidewalks, especially in the actual village? Is there something going on here you want to tell us about. Or is my memory on how these should look really going? In my defense I have been stricky terraforming for a couple of months ;)

Really nice update,
you do a great job of mixing up the technical updates and the eye candy.

Phil

So I'm going to ease my way in to the "we respond to you" post I've been talking about for the last five days or so.

...procrastinate, procrastinate- we've heard it all before...

I'm at home on the second and last day of the "vacation" my doctor recommended by way of letting my eye...

...LOL, Nik-nik [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg7252#msg7252)...

...heal and rest a bit, so naturally I gravitated to the 'puter and started futzing with those farm fields that have me so frazzled.  Let me note here the posts by both Gaston and Tarkus made yesterday, the 22nd, before I go on.

First, Gaston said

QuoteI can understand what you mean about the farm fields.    I have to say I wish they were better.     At the same time I am truely impressed with the effort that the folks that made them have put in to them.     It is very difficult for me to have any kind of complaint about any lot  when I have no clue how to even start creating something like that.    ???   I will continue to be thankful for all the great stuff people are willing to spend time making.   That of course doesn't stop me from asking questions or making suggestions.

Then, Tarkus followed with

QuoteI had kind of wondered about those harvesting cycles myself, but I concur with Gaston, too, that it was at least nice for someone to create some better looking ones.  Heck, the Maxis ones don't even harvest at all.

As usual, others said what I wish I had.  I am so grateful to the amazing folks who have created the world of custom content out there.  They've almost singlehandedly kept this great game we play fresh and alive long after any reasonable expectation that it would still be taking up space on anyone's hard drive.  There's nothing else like SC4's continued popularity in today's computer game world, where the product life of a new "big thing" game is measured in months, and a year or so at best.  Remember Myst [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst)?  I thought it would remain fascinating forever the first six months I played it.  Pretty soon afterwards, though, the puzzles had all been solved and the paths to the final goal (and wasn't that exciting...zzzzzzzz) all traveled, and nothing about Myst was new anymore.  SC4 is different, and only the world's smallest thanks for that (for the Lot Editor and BAT- heaven knows if the company had any idea what it was unleashing some corporate greedhead at EA would have nixed their release big time, I'm sure) is due the company that has by and large walked away from the most dedicated and creative fanbase in the gaming world today.  SimGoober, among others whose farm fields I was kvetching about, should be receiving annual stock options from EA, along with a surprising large number of others.  Instead, they're just as ignored and unrecognized as all the rest of us.

One thing that marks the Da Vincis and Michealangelos of the custom content world, though, is their willingness to listen to constructive feedback about the things they create.  I once exchanged emails for a month over some details in a commercial BAT with a LEX/STEX/PLEX God who shall remain nameless (but forever in my thoughts) who must have spent hours re-doing something simply because some guy nic'd "dedgren" who he'd never met before and wasn't ever likely to run into in the future "used to work at one of those and the such-and-so out front just wasn't that way."  We have, I truly believe, great custom content as a more or less direct result...

...on beyond that the people creating it are just so darn talented...

...of the fact that the folks who use it are so discerning.  So, all you folks who've never uploaded to the LEX, STEX or PLEX, and who, like me, couldn't BAT to save their life...

..."Can't BAT for Poop" is going on my gravestone...

...hold your head high if you've ever expressed your honest opinion about something great that could be made even greater.  You are doing every person in this community a service.

Well, that's a whole bunch of text- we're almost to the pics, folks.  I promise.

So anyway, I sat down today armed only with some ideas and a "trial and error" forged knowledge of the Lot Editor and Reader and decided to try my hand at making some farm fields more to my liking.

Another diversion, though.  I'll sum it up by saying that bananas do not grow in 3RR.  Neither does tobacco or sugar cane.  Oh sure, I could invent some wacky story about how, before his tragic death "hoist on his own petard" [linkie] (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_295b.html) Simon deBeauville Grand [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg5238#msg5238) discovered, like Aragorn finding the seedling of the White Tree [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Tree_of_Gondor), a "Zone 3-hardy" banana plant sprout or some-such, but that would just be cheating, now, wouldn't it?

So, out of the plethora of farm and farm field types that are available, here's the short...

...very short, heh!

...list of crops that will grow in 3RR country.

   corn
   soybeans
   wheat

I'd include sorghum and clover, but nobody's done a field for those crops.  Hey, it's the northern midwest of North America- not a day at the beach growing season-wise.  At least it's not like here in Alaska, where we have two seasons- winter and July.

This post is continued here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg7429#msg7429).  See you on the flip side.

Great post! I agree. Lol, what more can I say?

So, here come the pics.  As I said, I thought I would see what I could do with some farm lots. So I made a few.

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In sum, I made four varieties of "bare ground" plop lots using just available plowed ground and dirt textures.  The lots are 1x1 (a gridsquare) and 4x4 (an acre).  Then I made two types of "crop" lots using one of the aforesaid textures and SG's plop seasonal "corn" and "wheat" props.  As you have noticed, I take the time to create a custom icon for them (so I can find them in the increasingly crowded "Parks" menu- I have that (the creation process) down to a science.  The crop lots are also 1x1 and 4x4.  Ignore the 6x6 one- it was an early experiment and I just forgot to remove it.

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Here's a wide-angle lookie at fields that I have made entirely out of these lots, except for leaving any farm buildings and immediate surroundings that had grown.

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Here's, from bottom to top, a cornfield, then a harvested wheatfield, then one of the "plowed fields" lots.  The corn and wheat all changes at the same time, and the fields are all bare from mid-November through mid-January.  Not perfect, but better.

Note the windrow of oaks, broken by a few larger trees, along the road.  These really add to the ambience when you see them in the game.

The roadlike area at the end of the cornfield is the plowed but unsown area where the tractor and equipment turns around.  More on this later.

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Into the following summer. The wheat's grown here.  I'm giving the appearance of the wheat a C+.  I don't like the gridlike appearance but, short of changing the BAT, which I can't do, that's about it.

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An effort at making a natural woodside edge to a field.  Bare plowed ground in spring.

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Grown wheat in the summer.  The "griddy" look of the wheat is not a good fit with the irregular edge.

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Wheat's harvested by fall.  I like that.

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Winter, watching for that first snow.

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The corn is another thing altogether.  I think it really worked well, especially in the close-ups.  You see here the dirt areas, which need to have the textures worked on to add some tracks and "fuzz up" the edges.  I plan to do this (in another life, probably).  For now, they'll do.

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Same pic in the fall.  The small field behind the house is one of the "texture" fields.  It has a fresh-plowed" look.

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Winter, and the harvest is all in.

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Here's a fall pic of the corner of that irregular field we looked at earlier.  I like this one, and think that wheat would be okay if I could eliminate the banding that runs parallel to the road.  The field across the road is corn.

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A simple pic showing an intersection and surrounding fields.  Up close, there's a little bit of artifacting in the cornfields, but I do like them a lot better now.  I may spend some time in a future post on my thoughts as to how to fix this.

Ignore the rocks along the asphalt road- I'm playing with ways to deal with detailing the easement- that may be the subject of a future set of texture lots, as well.  That road needs shoulders- I have to figure out why they're missing.  I'm using Peg's MTP road and street mod- more on that later, too.

I'd rather have no crosswalks in the game at all as opposed to crosswalks everywhere, including here where they clearly don't belong.

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The seasons change, and so do the fields.

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A close-up of the corner.  The ends of the furrows will really work once they are retextured and the edges against the grass broken up.  This latter could also be done with a small "grass" colored ploppable- I'm going to look around and see if I can find something now existing to use.

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A close-up (level 4 view) of the end of a cornfield.  The plop rocks (I have no idea how they got there) remind me of Frodo's Bilbo's stone trolls [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit) from whom (after they were turned to stone, of course) he obtained Sting [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_(Middle-earth)).

UPDATE:  (1-24-07) Thanks Stephen (exodus101) for catching my mistaken identification of hobbit.  I should be ashamed...

I plan, as noted, to lose the razor-sharp edges of the plowed but unsown area at the end of the corn rows.

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Here's a view from a different angle of that farm we saw a bit ago.  The lilacs are great!  This is about as good as it gets, even if the corn is too close up on the water tank.  I can fix that.

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Yup, it doesn't get much better than this.  Give the LOTter/BATter here 10 bonus points for making the lilac seasonal.

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The "main drag" [linkie] (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/main+drags).  Got to do something about those shoulders.  I really don't miss the sidewalks out here in the country, though.

I'll close this longer than I expected post out with a piece of pure eye candy.  Wildcat Rapids.

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...just a short walk from town...

Still more to come.  Lots more.

Later.

From what I can see, you have truly put some massive effort into this (that poke to the eye may have done something...kidding btw). I think though, in regard to the oddly shaped field, that a buffer of dirt (for the tractor(s) to turn around) would help and, insofar as I have been able to do so, add som extra dirt and blend it in with the trees. There will still be a grid-iness to it, but to some extent (from the little I know about farming equipment) that sort of pattern would be caused by a mechanical planter. If they intended to keep a barren patch at the end then the likely would not waste seed there and would turn the planter off before making the turn (thus causing a sudden stop). Pic 10 of your last update just seems to sell the overll effect so well (even if the corn is close to the water tank (it needs to drink too... and hey...bring the tank to a boil, dip the ears in and have a picnic fresh of the stalk...sorry, it's late).

Additionally, to NikNik: I was reading over your post. In terms of english words for rivers rising:
swell: (verb: to swell): a calm rise in water level. Similar to a flood but without the extreme flows of water. ex: the river swelled//The river is swollen.
flood: (noun/adj/verb: to flood): it it usually used when a large amount of water overflows the banks (usually associated with a storm as far as I can tell). ex: The flood destroyed many structures in town.
Those are the only ones I can think of. I hope that helps in some way.

Just one comment, I can't imagine plopping all thoses fields :(
Great works, I like you show us the seasonnal variety

Well, pictures 10 and 11 are some of the best farm shots that I've ever seen anywhere. The wheat looks absolutely incredible, and again, the seasonality that you show gives another dimension that makes everything look and feel very realistic.

On another note, I should also take this time to point out that I am really running out of creative and original ways to applaud your work. Soon I'm going to have to break out a thesaurus for some new superlatives! In other words, great job! Keep up the good work! Other positive feedback clichés!

Wow, huge update! I love the work on the farms; I especially like the "freshly plowed" pic. When I saw the first couple of pics, I thought "The farms look too griddy", but after viewing the rest of the update, I am truely impressed. You definitely have a skill, lovely work.

Quote from: threestooges on January 23, 2007, 11:47:56 PM
Additionally, to NikNik: I was reading over your post. In terms of english words for rivers rising:
swell: (verb: to swell): a calm rise in water level. Similar to a flood but without the extreme flows of water. ex: the river swelled//The river is swollen.
flood: (noun/adj/verb: to flood): it it usually used when a large amount of water overflows the banks (usually associated with a storm as far as I can tell). ex: The flood destroyed many structures in town.
Those are the only ones I can think of. I hope that helps in some way.

Thank you Threestooges. To swell beyond the river banks is what I was looking for.

Great update David. You have put a lot of work in getting the right touch. I personnaly like the dirt area berween the corn fields. It's like waiting for some Hollywood producer to shoot a scene in. Pic 10 indeed looks perfect!

Nik-Nik

Hi , David ,

You're a boring perfectionist , you know  $%Grinno$% , I like that so much ! ;D

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2006%2F9%2F1%2F198038%2F070123176wr.jpg&hash=152ad30050cc01b243662c30659dbae024cf54b0)

Maybe I know a trick to solve that ... Have to test something .
See you later .

David, I forgot to suggest you Darmok Transit Enabled Rural Trail Set (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16301). I'm sure you'll get the best out of it

I can't even begin to imagine trying to plop all those farm fields.  I found it easier to identify some custom farm-growables I really liked and simply change the field lots they are allowed to grow, but I guess that's just me.

The rural areas are just fantastic.  Shame that part of PEGs MTP road mod isn't showing for you... I'm sure that once you figure out what the trouble is, the area you just showed us will look even better.

Absolutely fantastic.  :thumbsup:

Wonderful SC4-Pictures! Fantastic farms!

looking at your pics and looking at mine it is hard to believe it is the same game.

great farms, i love the ploppable fields, i may have to use them if you upload them...

can we see a region shot

Hey David,

Great post as usual!  I'm definitely interested in the idea of ploppable farmland despite the effort it may take to lay it down.  I'd love to try them out.  Maybe you could put them on the LEX once you feel they are adequately complete.  Since I haven't done much in the SC4 farming world I'm wondering if these farm lots are actually functional or are they just pretty to look at? 

One last note:

QuoteThe plop rocks (I have no idea how they got there) remind me of Frodo's stone trolls from whom (after they were turned to stone, of course) he obtained Sting.

Great reference but Frodo would probably point out that Bilbo was the one who encountered the trolls, kept them up until they turned to stone, and then obtained Sting.  I realize however, that your eye injury may have caused you to confuse or interchange names...which is totally understandable.  ;) 

Thanks for the excellent post.  I look forward to the next one!

-Stephen

Hoo boy.  A huge new bunch of posts, and I'm on the way out the door on a very snowy Wednesday (about 6"/15 cm more yesterday, a total foot/.3 m since the weekend) to work.  I'll take a careful look tonight.

I did see though, that Stephen (exodus101) had pointed out

QuoteGreat reference but Frodo would probably point out that Bilbo was the one who encountered the trolls, kept them up until they turned to stone, and then obtained Sting.

Certainly agree with that.  Frodo is the self-effacing type, and would never take credit for the work of another.

...come to think of it, it was Gandalf [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf) who actually caused the trolls to turn to stone...

I do have to take exception to the following-

QuoteI realize however, that your eye injury may have caused you to confuse or interchange names...which is totally understandable.

Nope.  Early onset senility, pure and simple.  I can almost repeat those stories by heart- I can't believe I got that wrong.

...grumble, grumble...now where'd I put my teeth?

Anyway, Stephen, you join the hallowed ranks of 3RR Fact Checkers, and will be suitably honored at the next awards ceremony.
___________________

Something amusing.  I planned to put it up yesterday, but ran out of post.

A few days ago, I posted 3RR "then and now" pics [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=112.msg6541#msg6541).  As those of you who have followed the whole meandering story since March 12, 2006 starting over at Simtropolis will recall...

...but didn't- got you there [ mad cackle ]...

...Three Rivers Region actually started as a four large quad (of course, I didn't call them that back then) region, and was then expanded not once, but twice.  I thought I hadn't kept any region level pics of the first time around, but found one while setting up a new hard drive the other day.  So, here's the proper pic chronology.

Phase 1 - March-May, 2006
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F5626%2F3rrfromspace0dr.jpg&hash=b6821d78a61c761a077b0e1526e93d77026335d3)

Phase 2 - May-October, 2006
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F4108%2F3rroldgc2.jpg&hash=36308b05d907d1107c017472bd5a9a49a55def90)

Phase 3 - October, 2006-current
(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F993%2F3rrnowandthen0op.jpg&hash=66f500561e83529519d0231f7b36cfdde0716da6)

On this last map, I've noted the comparative size of the respective areas covered by the earlier two iterations.  I think it's safe to say I've sharpened my SC4 skills a bit over the past 10 months or so.

Anyway, gotta go.

Later.

I like what I see, both farms and forest are turning out very different to what Maxis gave us.

About the MTP from Pegasus, he has used a transparent texture instead of the road-with-sidewalk texture for this kind of zoning (no zoning). Normally if you just make an overlay texture with only the road, one of the standard wealth textures from Maxis will show. You can change the settings for this mod in the Ilive Reader, and also the crossings can be changed in the Reader. You will need another texture for that though.

You must have a very heavy computer to be able to handle that region, it has become huge.

Still lurking in here David, reading everything and trying to adsorb whatever I can, but, still haven't found the right words to describe what I've seen in here.  $%#Ninj2

David, as always, beautiful scenery. Those farms look great. Is the stream all ploppable water? I like how gently sloped the banks are, very realistic.

David,
    You know somedays I don't know why I like you so much.  j/k     You are truely talented.    Let's see...   You don't like the way the farm fields look.    Sooooo...   You just pop open a program you said you weren't familiar with, and (wait for it)   Redesign them so they are more to your liking.     This is truely some amazing stuff.     


---Gaston


    glad your eye is feeling a bit better.

That is a massive region! I've been follow Three River's back at ST, and when you moved over here, I followed you here. Those farms are amazing looking and really reminds you of real life. &apls

I have to agree, I love the farms and everything else that you have done with three rivers. I have a question for you though dedgren..Could you post some pictures of your industrial areas because I am learning how to create my cities and I am having some trouble making my areas look realistic! Thanks...

Kalanc69

I clearly have some catching up to do here. It's hard to keep up with a journal like 3RR when you keep those updates coming in such a fast pace. It just takes a few days of unexpected extra duties at work to miss so much.

Anyway, great job! Amazing levels of detail. &apls

And some input:

Why not use Trolcas dirt road mod (preferably in jeronij's extended version with diagonals)? I think that concrete roads are rather unrealistic in farm fields alltogether. In jrj's version there are also some nice road transitions that will make the intersections look smoother.

Most of the farms you've plopped look stunning, but some show a disturbing repetetiv pattern from afar. I normally wouldn't have pointed this out, since I think it might be an unsolvable problem, but since you being you... I thought it might be something you could actually work around.

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg144.imageshack.us%2Fimg144%2F5050%2Fvegotmail9mm.jpg&hash=89d4d4f60f75505c82059f7c840b125a4abe9624)

Well, I'm going to pick back up here one of the more popular features of 3RR back from the old days when we were over at ST.  "We've got Mail..." (WGM) is where I will try, over the course of a few days, to work my way as far back through your comments as possible and do things like answer questions, explore topics and issues you've raised, and just generally try to keep 3RR a conversation about SC4 rather than a lecture. In the last months of 3RR at ST (I'm going to start using 3RR-ST from this point, you've been warned that, as a former member of the military, I can get acronym-happy at times) I took to starting WGM posts with what I called "Notes and Asides," which is a heading I've stolen from the real Rolling Stone magazine [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stone) (that being the one that was published from the 60s into the mid 70s or so- not the pale and watered-down imitation of later years) to denote general info and points I wanted to make not related to any particular comments.  That will be my practice here at SC4D as well as I move from the more-or-less freeform period that we've been in to a far more organized and structured... ...yeah, right- in whose lifetime? ... format that I would intend to complement and enhance the presentation of 3RR as a truly collaboratively developed region.

I will be developing uniform titles for particular types of posts (like WGM) and "look-and-feel" presentation attributes that I hope you will find to your liking.  If not, please never hesitate to let me know in a comment or PM.

So, without further ado...

Notes and Asides

Anonymous readers have asked, "Why linkies?"

As I have answered before, "Why not?"

I throw in links to things that strike my fancy as I write, sometimes to a specific website, but most often to a Wikipedia [linkie] (http://www.wikipedia.org/) (...well, there you go...) article that seems on point.  Love Wikipedia or hate it, and some do, it's one-stop-shopping for web info on just about anything, and its information is available in just about every member's home language.  That last, by the way, is important to me in placing links as well.  I know that English is the "default" language here, but that it is not the first language of many members.  Expanding from that, I also know that I have developed a set of life experiences and frames of reference that have been by-and-large formed by a lifetime spent in the United States.  I don't have any idea whether, for example, Rocky and Bullwinkle [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_Show)

(https://www.sc4evermore.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F9440%2Frockyandbullwinklefz8.gif&hash=2a42993e578ab83c269b806b822c8ffeeb934a35)

have ever been sighted in Portugal, so I'll put in a linkie when I refer to "moose and squirrel" or upsidasium.  Hopefully, this helps folks understand what I'm thinkin' about here who don't necessarily share common "mental furniture" with me.

* * *

For some reason, folks continue to ask, "Who are you?"

The short answer to that question is here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=83.msg2576#msg2576).  I suppose there's a longer answer, but why don't we let that just come out as we go along.  As for what's in the post you just read if you followed the linkie, I will tell you that every bit of the information you see there is true, or at least as true as that stuff they're saying about wouanagaine [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=238.0).

With respect to the "Introduce yourself to the SC4 Devotion community" thread [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=83.0) that the above info about me is posted on, I'd encourage everyone who hasn't done so to unburden yourself of a little personal info there.  It's great to have some sense of who your neighbors are.  The thread's also a good place just to stop back by every so often and read about all the new members who've posted there since you did.  We're up to over 500 folks here, and I, for one, would hope to consider each of you a friend with whom I share a common interest in a great game.

* * *

While I'm in generic question answering mode I'll hit a few others...

"Hey, you're a lawyer- can I get some free legal advice?"  Well, in my considered opinion free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.  All kidding aside, I'm here not because I'm a lawyer but instead because I love to play SC4 and to be in the company of other folks who do as well.  That said, if you have a burning question about some aspect of the law that you just cannot restrain yourself from asking me- shoot it to me in a PM.  I'll tell you up front that the likely advice you will get is, "You should talk with a lawyer about that," which is a gentle hint that the best person to provide you with some assistance is the guy or gal down the street (or, if you're living in some paradise like Micronesia [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronesia), down the beach) who has a handle on the law locally.

That said, to the extent you have something to say about the laws of a particular SC4 region, I'm happy to throw in my 2 cents worth there any time.

***

"Why are you calling me by my first name?- I hardly even know you."  Well, that one's easy.  Aside from the fact that I think friends, by definition, probably ought to be on a first name basis, I have found that nics such as, let's say, "NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19" are somewhat, shall we say, cumbersome and stilted to use in any reasonably normal sounding informal discourse, especially in PMs.  Like

QuoteHey, NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19, great use of Andreas Roth's cow patty plop [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16210)!  Can't wait to see more of The Farms of Manuria.

I'd rather just have it be Jim or Jane or Jorge or Johanna...well, you get the picture.  That said, if you don't want your first name or another short nickname used by me in addressing you- let me know.  I'll stop (and won't give you a hard time about it).  One's name, at the end of the day, may be all that is left- it's an important possession and you have every right to set expectations about how others use it.  Me- I'm David, and you should feel free to call me that anytime...

and, oh, NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19, if you're out there and since I don't know your first name, can I call you Neb for short?

* * *

I have many more Notes and Asides to post, but let me move on now to some responses.

* * *

Emil (emilin - Developing Islas Gemas (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=261.0)) asked on 1/24

QuoteWhy not use Trolcas dirt road mod (preferably in jeronij's extended version with diagonals)? I think that concrete roads are rather unrealistic in farm fields alltogether. In jrj's version there are also some nice road transitions that will make the intersections look smoother.

Agree completely as to the better appearance.  The problem is that their use result's in sidewalks in rural areas, which is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned.  I started a thread about that issue here [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=141.0) and plan to post some updated thoughts and what I have learned over the past few weeks over the coming weekend.  There is some hope...

Emil also noted on that date

QuoteMost of the farms you've plopped look stunning, but some show a disturbing repetetiv pattern from afar.

Also agreed.  The fields have the same issues as many of the rock mods- because they are composed of small screen areas of the same pattern, the interpolation of the image that results as the viewpoint is backed further away leads to an easily discernable overall pattern.  There is definitely hope here.  First is that my larger lots were the result of a few moments of simply packing props on a lot- moving them around and/or making the lot larger may well help some.  More important is that I have learned from barby (barbyw - General Purpose BSC Lot Goddess) that the BSC part of the Farming EP is being updated.  I asked if I could provide some input and she graciously said please do.  So, I certainly plan to do that, and adjusting the prop size a bit to eliminate the situation that causes the pattern is high on the list of suggestions.

Emil, thanks so much for commenting here.  Developing Islas Gemas (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=261.0) is off to a great start, and I look forward to appropriating learning from..

...Yeah, that's the ticket [linkie] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Isuzu)...

...some of your ideas and work for use at 3RR.

* * *

Kalanc6 asked on the 24th

QuoteCould you post some pictures of your industrial areas because I am learning how to create my cities and I am having some trouble making my areas look realistic!

Uhhh...kalanc, my friend, come on over here. Closer...closer.

Now, I'm going to whisper this for your ears only because I don't want too many folks to find out...ready?

...3RR doesn't have any industrial areas, at least not yet. 

It's a great question, though.  I refer you to check out the work of three masters of creating SC4 industry- jeronij, AleKing and emilin.  Start there here and in the CJ forums at ST.  There are many others who do great industrial areas, but you can't go wrong looking at the work of any of these three.

I note that such industry as ultimately does come to 3RR will likely come in through the work of a contributor.

* * *

n.b.:  (1-26-07  10:00 a.m AST GMT-9)  Posting as I go- this will be a long post put up over the course of January 25-26, so if you get to this message at the bottom of what you've read, please check back later for updated content.  DE

Hi David,

Nice to see you have completed the migration from ST to SC4D  ... a wise decision if I may be so blunt to add.

As you already know I have been in awe of your work for a long time. Although I don't respond a lot I do visit 3RR very often and enjoy watching the great work you have done. Therefor, with certainty, I will also visit the Region here on SC4D ... and will try not to be a lurker too much.

E.

Just goes to show that grand really goes with your grandfatherness.  I need to reread this, treat it like a text book on how to play this game! 

Hehe, you're right, some of the things you sometimes write about or mention, if there wasn't a [linkie] I would never guess or understand what the hell you were talking about. Even  with all the knowledge I have from the Shakespeare language, it's impossible for a Portuguese to understand everything. ;D Thx David for all those linkies. :thumbsup:

David,   (Yes, I know I can call you that here.  LOL)
     You might or might not recall some of the conversational postings I made over at ST.    I am referring to the ones where I said 3RR was like a home to me.     Well my friend,  that last post was like you just handed me a hot toddy [linkie (http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink4355.html)],  put a log on the fire,  and bade me sit upon the comfiest chair [linkie (http://people.csail.mit.edu/paulfitz/spanish/script.html)].   (Hmm, Noone was expecting that!)     But seriously I have once again been welcomed home.    Thank you my friend.


---Gaston

Quote...And just generally try to keep 3RR a conversation about SC4 rather than a lecture.

If my college professors presented information half as interesting as you have here, I'd be a Rhodes Scholar. I do look forward to seeing how you address some of the comments brought up by everyone here, because I see it as more of an opportunity to learn and a chance to delve deeper into your thought process.

Also, I agree with Gaston in saying that you've made me feel very comfortable here. 3RR has become a welcome distraction from the trials and tribulations of real life and I thank you very much for that.

Take care,

Dustin (You can call me by my name anytime you want!)

well David, you made me read all 14 pages of the introduce yourself page.
I found out that I have never submitted myself there. So here's: NikNik (http://sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=35&topic=83.msg7820#new).

Thanks for the little history tour on 3RR. nice to see those old region shots again.

Have a great weekend, mine will begin inless than 3 hours.
Nik-Nik

Hi folks- hey:

I've had some completely unexpected issues arise yesterday evening and today that are occupying my time.  I really want to get back to the ongoing WGM post but, in the meantime, here's some content from 3RR-ST that will help fill the time.

* * *