Three Rivers Region

Started by dedgren, December 20, 2006, 07:57:49 PM

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I took a look at the 3RR bibliography and "Lying with Maps" has to be the best book title that I have ever seen, even though I'm not sure of the content.

I love how everyone keeps taunting "big stuff is just around the corner with the birthday bash," by the way. Its almost maddening...



Just muh modify......

now we have a solution to our gas problems!  ;D &apls



Your maps keep amazing me.  I have no idea how you do them but all I can say is WOW!!!!!  They always look amazing.


How can anyone possibly improve on something like this?

Until the next improvement...


David woah that map is defintly a keeper  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: i cant wait to see what you got for the birthday bash - pat

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie


I'm not david!!!!! Are you talkin' about my map, or his?   ???  ???


Sorry SC4luv didnt even see your map there my friend... i had hit reply on prev page... But your map is looking pretty close and better then the last map you had posted... you are getting better as well  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie


I was talking about Davids map as well.  How can you modify someones map in his own MD I don't understand that.


neither do I, but sc4luv2 is doing what he (?) thinks is right. great maps, both of y'all.


either way it is good practice for sc4luv, so when he gets the atlas page for his own quad he can detail it. anyway, glad to here the appropriate evaporation of said swartzchild singularity occured without hitch, backup is a fundamental idea and with a game as buggy as sc4 to not use such facilities is folly.

great cartography david, a few ideas for my particular quad are already starting to formulate... cartographically anyway...
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....


Just wanted to post something quickly to let my friends know what is going on in RL.

I had to take a second job for the obvious reasons.   (Need money)  ()sad()   So my time on line is severely limited for the next month or so.     I will be on most weekends more than the weekdays.   Hopefully I won't miss too much.     %confuso

Just keep me in mind and know that I am thinking about all ya'll.


They say that the memory is the second thing that goes....
...dang , I wish I could remember the first.
WooHoo made Councilman - 05 FEB 07 Yipee made Mayor - 13 MAR 07 Hip Hip Hooray made Governor - 04 AUG 07 Rock On made Senator - 15 MAR 09


I know I haven't been much help here.  Let me be plain spoken (then I'll start waffling- just you watch).

Our friend sc4luv2 has taken me at my word: that 3RR is a collaborative enterprise.  He's acting on that- adding things to maps that his vision of 3RR tells him should be there.  I, frankly, admire both the initiative that sc4luv2 has taken and the imagination he has shown.  Those are qualities that will serve each collaborator well in the weeks to come.

Fine so far.  I do have an issue, though, with a number of issues that our friend's map raises.  First and foremost, if collaboration is going to be successful, there has to be a shared vision.  That vision extends from a number of bases, each of which I have gone (and, I know some feel interminably, continue to go) to great length to create in as much specific detail as I can.  These bases are:

1.  The Collaboration Rules.

2.  The 3RR Back Story.

3.  3RR Demographic and Other Compiled Data and Information.

4.  Cartographic Information.

The Rules.  Back on March 12th, I said this [linkie]:

QuoteHere are the rules that will apply across the board:

1.  The Adminstrator/Planner and I will negotiate and agree on the contents of a plug-in folder and mods to be used before development begins.  The developer will be responsible for keeping track of what is used in for describing it to the general public on the 3RR thread.

2.  Road, highway and rail entrance and exit points to and from the quad will not be changed or added to by the developer absent negotiation and agreement with me.

3.  Reforestation after trees are removed in the course of development will utilize trees that are similar to the ones removed.  All deciduous trees will be in the form of seasonal trees wherever practical.

4.  Cycledogg's "Columbus terrain mod" will be used in every quad.

5.  Timotheus4's "Edmonton water mod" and Pegasus' "Brigantine water mod" will be used in every quad where water appears.

6.  Only site or project specific terraforming may be done.  Any terraforming that changes a grid square on the edge of a quad will be done only after negotiation and agreement between the developer and me.

7.  A "Slope mod" will be used that limits maximum rail grades to 3%, maximum elevated highway grades to 5%, maximum highway grades to 7%, maximum avenue and road grades to 10%, and maximum street grades to 12%.

8.  The latest version of the NAM shall be used.

9.  Other standards I announce from time to time will be followed absent negotiation and agreement between the developer and me.

I see at least one rule, #2, that our friend's most recent map falls afoul of.

The Back Story.  Folks, you have to read the back story.  That includes the Gazetteer.  I note that I've invited everyone to contribute to the Gazetteer, and I'm sort of surprised (well, maybe not, after what happened to poor Joan (JMouse) when she bravely took a stab at writing about the Pine Cone Islands and I gave her the once over [linkie]) that collaborators have not been jumping in to write about the places that are in the quads they have chosen.  Reference to the back story would have kept sc4luv2 from reinventing the wheel in creating new secondary road shields and being mistaken about the numbering system [linkie].

Quote3.  Secondary Roads.  Secondary roads are the region's local rural traffic carriers.  There are no secondary roads within the city limits of Pineshore, which has the responsibility under its charter for maintaining all streets and roads that are not in the freeway and primary systems.  Secondary roads are two lanes wide, may be paved or simply "improved" (chip seal, tarred, or graded and compacted gravel are all common) and are built, with a few wider exceptions, on 50 foot/16 meter wide rights-of-way.

S-527 crosses the prairie headed toward the Southern Range

S-546 just south of Low Light Hills

Secondary road numbers are three digits long and always begin with "5."  Odd-numbered secondary roads run north and south, running from lower to higher across the region from west to east.  Even-numbered secondary roads run east and west, running from lower to higher across the region from north to south.  Here are two secondary road route shields from the region.


There are about 1,100 miles (1,760 kilometers) of secondary roads in Three Rivers Region.

Compiled Information.  I've published a list of 3RR urban places and located them on the map after doing extended research about the spatial distribution of cities, towns and hamlets and their population characteristics in north-central America.  The list is included here [linkie].  Our friend's "Milan Junction" should not have been just willy-nilly added to that.  That should not stop folks from proposing places for addition, but you all need to understand that you had better, if that's what you would like to do, be ready to make a really good case for what you propose.

Carto Stuff.  Well, it's everywhere.  I think I've made my standards, as well as my techniques and methods, pretty clear.  I will say, again to be really frank, that sc4luv2's additions to the Hay Flat road atlas map, from the standpoint of appearance and consistency with other map products, are not of the level of quality that I would hope to maintain here.

Now, I understand that's pretty rough.  As you know, I've been working for a solid year plus polishing my computer-based cartography skills.  My output is far from perfect, but it's worlds ahead of where it was in the fall of 2006.  I am willing, to the extent anyone has an interest in SC4 mapping, to dedicate as much time as I reasonably can in attempting to help him or her develop the necessary skills.  I carry on a fairly lively PM correspondence with several folks already, and I have recently been admitted to membership in New Horizons Productions, the premier mapping team in the community.

What I would suggest, if you have a 3RR-related map based product of any kind that you would like to see included in collaboration- are the following guidelines.

1.  If your map is a modification of a map I have created, use the styles, colors, line widths, fonts and other conventions that I have incorporated.  If you need info from me in order to do that- ask.  Send me a PM, and I'll be happy to tell you that a particular label is 8pt italic Times New Roman with a line weight of 1.0 and that its color is R:0, G:0, B:192.

2.  If your map is something new, send an evaluation copy to me first.  I'm on MSN- check below the icon in the left-hand column of this page.  We'll figure out a way (hint, hint) for you to get the map to me.  I'm always excited to look at someone's new carto ideas.  Chances are I'll have some suggestions, but I will really try to encourage ancillary content of that sort in collaboration.

3.  Whatever your map is, don't put it out there before it is ready for prime time.  Take the time to get what you do as right as you can before you plop in in a post or comment.  Doing that, if nothing else, will enhance the credibility of what you are seeking to present, or at least will not detract from it.  If you have any doubts along these lines, again- send it to me first.  I can be a tough critic, but I will always be constructive.

OK, so this ran long.  In advance, sc4luv2, you are a good sport to take what I've said here in the right way.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of what you will be doing with your 3RR quad- I bet both of us will be proud at the end of the day on what we will have worked on together.  Everyone else, I can hear what you're thinking.  "This collaboration, it sounds like it will be a lot harder than I thought.", "Oh, man!  One more thing I've got to read up on.", and "I never knew David was such a pain in the...".  Well, hey- I'll leave the last one to your imagination.  I'm a firm believer in the old truism that nothing really worth doing is easy, but I'm committed to supporting you completely in making 3RR collaboration the greatest end-user project this community has ever seen.

There's amazing things that we will do together.


D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


I should extend my compliments to you. I have been browsing the additional threads that have been recently added, and it's great to see these thngs come into the accessible state that they are in (no more navigating back to page ___ to find what I'm looking for). In regard to collaborators working on their own quad decsriptions, I should probably add (if I haven't already) that I have begun working on mine (McKee's rocks) and have a decent start in progress. When I get some time (possibly this weekend if I can get enough work done on that memo for class...actually, pretty good times) I will send a draft your way via pm for critique. Good news about quad 100 too. See you later.



You have put so much of your time and of yourself into 3RR. I want to thank you for making such a complete commitment. You are a massive part of what keeps me coming back to SC4D. I don't post much but I've been following closely and have enjoyed every minute of your thoughts.

Best wishes.
Where City and Country Flow Together


Wow!  At 3:15 p.m. GMT today, the page view odometer rolled past 40K.

Kinda, er... scary, isn't it?

...after all, it is Halloween...


D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


New Horizons Productions
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Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine


Wow, 40000.  Here's to 40000 more.  I'm sure you will achieve it.

&apls &apls &apls

Robin   :thumbsup:
Call me Robin, please.


40,000 views! Another milestone! Congrats, David!

The thing that I think makes these milestones even more fabulous is the fact that 3RR has been active here for less than a year! If you keep this pace up, by this time next year, you'll be at 80,000! Congratulations again, my friend! You've definitely earned it!



LoL only 40K lol naw whats scary is this....

and David  congrats for being a top viewed and used MD project....

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie