Started by mott, October 13, 2007, 01:27:51 PM
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QuoteI doubt that this was known when the plugins were made?
QuoteAny chance on farms too?
Quote(uncongested) Maxis toll booth's 0.2 delay will work out to something around 90-100 seconds delay to slow down, pay the toll, and re-accelerate again, which isn't that far off from reality.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 13, 2007, 06:39:41 PMWhat would happen if I set the entry cost for the blocker lot (which allows only buses and pedestrians) to 0? What would be the effect of doing so? I'm kind of trying to encourage buses to use the busway as a favoured route to get to places. I have the network set up so that there are direct connections between major areas and residential areas.
Quote from: mott on October 14, 2007, 07:12:06 PMWell, I'm a little ahead of schedule so I just want to check in with you. Sounds like you've got it figured out pretty well already - and that "speeding" thing works wonders, doesn't it? I first discovered it when I was trying to make Sims start using the next parking lot over, before the first one had saturated. What it did to commute patterns in general was a pleasant surprise.
Quote from: mott on October 14, 2007, 07:12:06 PMOn the congestion vs. speed front, I did some research in my area... the Eastshore Freeway (design speed 50 MPH) moves at 65-70 when clear (only at 3:45 am), the design 50 when saturated to 100%, and 12-15 when at 150%, call that 1/4 speed at 150% use? The San Diego Freeway down in LA does hit 200% usage, and as the joke goes, it's called the 405 because you're doing 4 or 5 mph. 1/16th design speed, then, at 200%, and 1/64th at 300%? By 1/64th speed, it's be faster to walk, or nearly so. I've had good luck with these ratios in my testing.Oh, and I found where I can make congestion show up sooner on the data view, to support the above numbers. 100% use will now be bright yellow, 150% an ominous glowing orange, and 200%, pure red. At least, as soon as I can figure out the 0-255 scale it's on internally. Currently, pure yellow is usage 0x1A, or 26. I think that color hits at 260% normally; I'll have to trial-and-error it.
Quote from: mott on October 14, 2007, 07:12:06 PMThe "Map Distance To Minutes" multiplier (default 25) seems to be what the "map distance" is multiplied by to determine the freight trip time that is given when you query industrial zones. This is clearly on a 0-255 scale since with no connections, you see freight trips of 255 minutes. Someone made a mod that gives you detailed query info for all zone types; I need to check to see if it's used there as well - if so, we need this multiplier to be tuned correctly as well, in order to avoid causing R$$$ abandonment issues based on perceived commute time.
Quote from: mott on October 14, 2007, 07:12:06 PMThe "transit switch cost vs. funding" curves would allow players to make transit stations relatively faster or slower with funding. The problem is, it also leads to rail damage if the slider is set below 67%. By default, you don't have to keep your transportation funding any higher than that to avoid damage (there's a curve for funding/damage as well that can be altered though). We could probably have some fun with the funding/delay curve in the 67%-120% funding range, if we wanted to.
Quote from: mott on October 14, 2007, 07:12:06 PMPS: One neat consequence of the "park and ride" mod: If it's impossible to drive anywhere because there are no parking facilities, all the Sims will walk to work. There can be no road neighbor connections or they'll drive off-map, but passenger ferries are OK. This makes no-car, transit-only cities possible, except you can't get garbage deals due to lack of road connections. In any case, with the park-and-ride mod, you'll at least be able to decide when (if?) cars are "invented." Until you plop that first parking lot or make a car-based neighbor connection, they haven't been, and people just walk. I'm not sure how R$$$ Sims would react to this. A little cheat-testing may be in order to find out.
QuoteCongestion vs Accident Probability:0% = 0% chance25% = 1% chance50% = 3% chance100% = 9% chance200% = 25% chance
Quote from: mott on October 15, 2007, 01:22:58 AMOn another topic, your experience with congestion causing bus usage reminded me that a while ago, I modded my pathfinding file so that buses were slower than cars, not faster. I'd forgotten that I'd done this, and it will change the results you see with buses versus what I see. If you're feeling experimental, try setting bus speeds to be about half of the driving speeds and see what changes. I did it because there's no way to force bus riders to wait through stops like there is for the rail stations that let you drag tracks through them. (Except the road-top bus stops, but those have other implications that I'd rather avoid). Sims preferred to stay on the bus than pay the additional time cost of transferring to the train, because there was no time cost involved with waiting through stops. So I slowed the buses down to reflect frequent stops, until it was faster to transfer to the train than to stay on the bus. This is unrelated to the tuning changes you need, but I thought I'd mention it because it does change how the Sims react to traffic.Also I made pedestrians generate traffic and also be affected by it, so drivers will avoid pedestrian-heavy streets, and pedestrians will prefer not to walk on busy streets if they can help it. All those pedestrians getting off the subways and buses and crossing the street ties up traffic there. It's a much more realistic model of how transit stops affect street traffic than the Maxis no-traffic-at-all model, or the one-bus-per-Sim disaster that occurs if you change it so buses themselves generate traffic. Buses don't generate traffic in my game, but all Sims walking around the stops do. If other people would want this to happen, I don't know. I like it, and it helps keep pedestrian-mall commercial areas alive. It also un-privileges driving vs. transit a little bit after I slowed down the buses. Networks that don't allow pedestrians, such as highways and RHW, take on a new dimension of usefulness.To further un-privilege drivers vs. transit, there's the "commute trip starting cost by transit type" property in the pathfinding exemplar, and its related entries for car-preferred and transit-preferred trips by transit type. This is where that hefty time penalty for forcing Sims to use transit instead of driving is assessed. You'll notice that for the car-preferred strategy, there's a huge trip starting cost for taking transit. In my game, I removed the penalties, because I don't think artificially inflating commute times is the proper way to reflect people's preference for driving. Instead, I gave driving a penalty of 1 minute to 90 seconds (I'm still experimenting with it) to reflect the time it takes to open the garage or walk to where you parked, start and warm up the car, pull out... this is assessed whether you wanted to drive or not. And by the time you've done that, your neighbor who rides the bus has walked to the bus stop on the corner, if it's only 5 or 6 tiles away. The time it takes to walk to the bus stop and wait for the bus to come is the same whether you wanted to ride the bus or not, and the game already models that reality and it priveleges driving because walking is so slow. I'll bet that's why Maxis made the buses so fast in the first place, to make up for it. There are better ways.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 15, 2007, 03:25:47 AMThere should still be a very small probability of accidents happening on roads with 0% traffic. After all, quite a few single-car accidents happen from time to time. Maybe it could be set to 0.05% or thereabouts?Still, I'd recommend this:0% = 0% chance50% = 3% chance100% = 7% chance150% = 14% chance200% = 25% chanceThat'd make a very nice curve, and would be more or less similar to real world data. This takes in account the speed of people (there may be a margin of error), which is why the crash rate isn't exponentially higher for capacities above 100%. It could be adjusted according to what people want, so long as the ratios remain the same.
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